D&D 5E The Balancing Act - Races, Dark Vision and Other Items I would like feedback on

[DeJoker]

Okay was looking at the various races to allow within my next online game and like usual their balance is speculative at best.
.
However before I get started with the races in general let me address first the subject of Dark Vision.
.
Dark Vision

Dark Vision is something that I completely (as I have always) disagree with as a common sense. For IMHO it destroys the basic atmosphere -- why would any of those races use "torches" or other sources of light underground as they would have no need-- that and as there are absolutely no creatures that exist (in our world) that have a sense anywhere near that. Of course we do have creatures that possess Dark Blind Sight and it seems like a viable substitute. So what do you all see as the pros and cons to replacing Dark Vision with a combination of Low Light Vision and making Dark Blind Sight (10 ft) a Feat that can be taken and with this representing a combination perhaps enhanced senses and/or special training to operate without eyesight.
.​

Low Light Vision

A creature with low-light vision can see twice as far as a normal human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of shadowy or dim illumination. The creature retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. A person with low-light vision can read from a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to them as a source of light. So outdoors under a full moon on a clear night, a character can see as well as if during the day under a slightly overcast sky.​

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Next I need to address the Dragonborn Breath Weapon as I found it very lacking (as others have as well it seems) especially when compared to other racial abilities (such as Elf-High Cantrip) and this is probably because of its design. Instead of creating a whole new power I asked why not just use some Cantrips to handle it? Then after looking them over I decided to instead of using the Cantrip straight up I would instead just tweak them a little to keep the flavor of a breath weapon and thus compensate for the "area of effect". So let us look at this a bit closer.
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Dragonborn Breath Weapon

First I am only going to deal with the "Good" Dragonborn as I have relegated the "Evil" Dragonborn to an NPC status in my world.
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dragon Type
[/TD]
[TD]Element
[/TD]
[TD]Save
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brass
[/TD]
[TD]Fire
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Copper
[/TD]
[TD]Acid
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bronze
[/TD]
[TD]Lightning
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Silver
[/TD]
[TD]Cold
[/TD]
[TD]Con
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gold
[/TD]
[TD]Fire
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Now while that is nice it doubles up on fire and I have 5 Elements in my world Air, Water, Fire, Earth, and Void (Wind/Force) and to give my dragons a certain feel I went with the following.
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dragon Type
[/TD]
[TD]Element
[/TD]
[TD]Save
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brass
[/TD]
[TD]Acid
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Copper
[/TD]
[TD]Fire
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bronze
[/TD]
[TD]Lightning
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Silver
[/TD]
[TD]Cold
[/TD]
[TD]Con
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gold
[/TD]
[TD]Wind/Force
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So the next step was plugging in some Cantrips because there are Cantrips that do these things and they have a natural incrementation of +Die of Damage at levels 5, 11, and 17 with a maximum of 4 dice of damage and theoretically these are game balanced. The DC of course remains the same DC 8 + Constitution Modifier + Proficiency Bonus and since they are "Cantrips" it is now an At Will that requires an Attack Action to use.
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 1000, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dragon Type
[/TD]
[TD]Element
[/TD]
[TD]Save
[/TD]
[TD]Cantrip
[/TD]
[TD]Range
[/TD]
[TD]Damage Die
[/TD]
[TD]Extra Effect
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brass
[/TD]
[TD]Acid
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]Acid Splash
[/TD]
[TD]60 ft
[/TD]
[TD]1d6
[/TD]
[TD]Splash
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Copper
[/TD]
[TD]Fire
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]Fire Bolt
[/TD]
[TD]120 ft
[/TD]
[TD]1d10
[/TD]
[TD]Burn
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bronze
[/TD]
[TD]Lightning
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]Shocking Grasp
[/TD]
[TD]Touch
[/TD]
[TD]1d8
[/TD]
[TD]Shock
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Silver
[/TD]
[TD]Cold
[/TD]
[TD]Con
[/TD]
[TD]Frostbite
[/TD]
[TD]60 ft
[/TD]
[TD]1d6
[/TD]
[TD]Chilled
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gold
[/TD]
[TD]Wind/Force
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]Eldritch Blast
[/TD]
[TD]120 ft
[/TD]
[TD]1d10
[/TD]
[TD]None
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Okay that gives a base to work with but need to change the range as these are To Hit a single target instead of a limited area of affect. The Cone for a Dragonborn seemed a bit too much so I decided on a Line for all but since most of these Cantrips only have a range of 60 feet I decided that a 5 foot wide by 15 foot line would be sufficient. Now Eldritch blast does 1d10 damage but has no side affect however looking at the dragons I saw that the Bronze Dragon had a interesting twist that seems to fit the bill of (Force/Wind) -- Repulsion Breath. The dragon exhales repulsion energy and each creature in that area must succeed on a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is pushed 40 feet away from the dragon. Making the tweaks I get.
.
DC = 8 + Con Mod + Prof Bonus
Breath Range : 5 ft wide 15 ft line
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 750, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dragon Type
[/TD]
[TD]Element
[/TD]
[TD]Save
[/TD]
[TD]Damage Die
[/TD]
[TD]Extra Effect
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brass
[/TD]
[TD]Acid
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]1d6
[/TD]
[TD]Lingers
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Copper
[/TD]
[TD]Fire
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]1d10
[/TD]
[TD]Burns
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bronze
[/TD]
[TD]Lightning
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]1d8
[/TD]
[TD]Shocks
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Silver
[/TD]
[TD]Cold
[/TD]
[TD]Con
[/TD]
[TD]1d8
[/TD]
[TD]Chills
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gold
[/TD]
[TD]Wind
[/TD]
[TD]Dex
[/TD]
[TD]1d8
[/TD]
[TD]Blasts
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Lingers : The effect lasts for an additional round and does damage in the additional round unless the target immediately removes (Dex save DC 15) the acid using at least a gallon of alcohol
Burns : Any unattended flammable object will catch fire
Shocks : The DC is increased by +5 if the target is wearing metal armor or increased by +2 if the target is using a metal weapon. On a failed save the target takes damage and cannot take Reactions or Free Actions until the end of their next turn.
Chills : On a failed save the target is at Disadvantage on Attacks until the end of their next turn.
Blast : On a failed Dex save the target must make a Strength save or be pushed backwards 15 feet. Further the wind blast will disperse gas or vapor, extinguish candles, torches and similar unprotected flames in the area of effect. It also has a 50 percent chance to extinguish protected flames, such as those of lanterns as well within the area of effect.
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Of course the above can be applied to evil dragon types as well with only one minor addition the Green Dragon so in case you needed that for completeness here it is

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 750, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Dragon Type
[/TD]
[TD]Element
[/TD]
[TD]Save
[/TD]
[TD]Damage Die
[/TD]
[TD]Extra Effect
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Green
[/TD]
[TD]Poison Gas
[/TD]
[TD]Con
[/TD]
[TD]1d12
[/TD]
[TD]Cloud
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

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Cloud : The cloud disperses at the end of the round however if there is a light wind its range is reduced to 10 feet and if their is a medium wind its range is reduce area to 5 feet and finally if there is a strong wind it cannot be used effectively at all
.​

Now on to balancing the Races. I have always disliked how certain races were the go to because they simply were hands down better than any other race so a long time ago I dug into that and tweaked my races to be balanced. Every race had a certain number of benefits and some had some banes that were thus covered by an additional benefit. So I got used to doing this and can to some degree eye-ball these things now. Now while I have to admit 5e has done a much better job at balancing the races they still IMO are not quite there. Still I would like feed back on the pros and cons of doing this before I implement it (not the pros and cons of implementing or not implementing but the pros and cons after implementing) in order to perhaps tweak the races in a better way maintain overall balance.
.
Note on the numbering process I am using below. I am counting up the number of full benefits each race is getting with the premise that a +1 to an Attribute is 1 full Benefit and then if they have a full Penalty that reduces their current count. I am also assuming each race gets 2 languages one of which is Human (or if you like Common).
.
First as a reminder and for easier comparison here are the relevant : What is
.
Dragonborn

1-2) STR +2
3) CHA +1
4) Damage Resistance
5-?6) Breath Weapon​

Kobold

1-2) DEX +2
-2) STR -2
1) Dark Vision
-1) Sunlight Senstitivity
1) Pack Tactics
2) Grovel​

Dwarf-Hill

1-2) CON +2
3) WIS +1
4) Dark Vision
4.5) Tool Proficiency
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
5) Dwarf Combat Training
6) Dwarf Resilience
7) Toughness
7.5) Stone Cunning​

Dwarf-Mountain

1-2) CON +2
3-4) STR +2
5) Dark Vision
5.5) Tool Proficiency
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
6) Dwarf Combat Training
7) Dwarf Resilience
8) Dwarven Armor Training
8.5) Stone Cunning​

Deep Gnome

1-2) INT +2
3) DEX +1
4-5) Superior Dark Vision
5.5) Stone Camouflage
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
6-7) Gnome Cunning​

Elf-High

1-2) DEX +2
3) INT +1
4) Dark Vision
5) Fey Ancestry & Trance
6) Elf Weapon Training
7) Wizard Cantrip
7.5) Keen Senses
​

Elf-Wood

1-2) DEX +2
3) WIS +1
4) Dark Vision
5) Fleet of Foot & Mask of the Wild
6) Fey Ancestry & Trance
6.5) Keen Senses
​

Half-Elf

1-2)CHA +2
3-4) 2 Ability Scores +1
5) Dark Vision
6) Fey Ancestry & Language
7) Skill Versatility
--or--
7) Elf Weapon Training
--or--
7) Fleet of Foot & Mask of the Wild
--or--
7) Wizard Cantrip​

Human

1-6) +1 to Each Ability
--or--
1-2) +1 to 2 Different Abilities
3-4) Feat
4.5) Skill Proficiency​

Half-Orc

1-2) STR +2
3) CON +1
4) Dark Vision
5) Menacing
6) Relentless Endurance
7) Savage Attacks​

Gnome-Forest

1-2)INT +2
3) DEX +1
4) Dark Vision
4.5) Speak with Small Beast
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
5-6) Gnome Cunning
7) Natural Illusionist​

Gnome-Rock

1-2)INT +2
3) CON +1
4) Dark Vision
4.5) Tinker
-1) Base Speed 25 ft
5-6) Gnome Cunning
6.5) Artificer's Lore​

Goliath

1-2) STR +2
3) CON +1
4) Natural Athlete & Mountain Born
5) Stone's Endurance
6) Powerful Build​

Halfling-Lightfoot

1-2) DEX +2
3) CHA +1
3.5) Brave
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
4) Lucky
5) Halfling Nimbleness & Naturally Stealthy​

Halfling-Stout

1-2) DEX +2
3) CON +1
3.5) Brave
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
4) Lucky
5) Stout Resilience
5.5) Halfling Nimbleness​

Tiefling

1-2) CHA +2
3) INT +1
4) Dark Vision
5) Hellish Resistance
6-7) Infernal Legacy
.​

Okay that is the What Is from what I can tell and while some of the various benefit values are perhaps a bit iffy or have room for debate I am going with the general concept here and seeing that the Kobold gets hosed and the Dwarf is still the best there is room for improvement. Many feel that the Human-Variant is the best but that is only due to versatility as you can tailor that race to just about anything you want to exploit and a Feat at 1st level is much more significant than when it is gotten at 4th level but that does not affect the actual worth of the Feat just a perceived boosted value because of when you get it not what you get. So I do not think that I am far from the mark and what it shows is that most Races have about 7 Benefits associated with their race and since 7 is a complete number (and basically what I used before) that is what I decided to balance all my races too. Okay with that all stated and the fact that Dark Vision in my world is only possessed by the very rare creature such as True Dragons and an extremely few other very magical creatures. It is of course still a magic spell, but I like how someone suggested that Dark Vision is like the eyes projecting Ultra-Violet light to see by and like a flashlight only have a certain distance to which it works.
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Aossí

Medium Fey my Elf Replacement
1-2) WIS +2
3) CHA +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Fey Ancestry
6) Hidden Step (Firbolg)
7) Speech of Beast and Leaf (Firbolg)​

Brownie

Mostly a name change for the Gnome-Rock
1-2) INT +2
3) CHA +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
4.5) Tinker
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
5-6) Magic Cunning (see Gnome Cunning)
7) Artificer's Lore : Whenever the character makes an Intelligence check related to magic items (Arcana), alchemical objects (Investigation),or technological devices (History) they are considered Proficient in that skill and further add double their proficiency bonus for that check, instead of using just their normal proficiency bonus (if any).​

Leprechaun

Mostly a name change for the Gnome-Forest
1-2) INT +2
3) DEX +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
4.5) Speak with Small Beasts
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
5-6) Magic Cunning (see Gnome Cunning)
7) Druid Cantrip (but uses Intelligence as base)​

Dragonborn

1-2) STR +2
3) CHA +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Draconic Breath Weapon (see above)
6) Draconic Ancestry : The character has Advantage on saving throws against the damage type of their draconic ancestry, and they have Resistance to the damage type of their draconic ancestry​

7) Natural Scales : The character has tough scales that increases their unarmored Armor Class to 13 + their Dexterity modifier (max +3). Wearing medium or heavier armor does not stack with their Natural Armor Class, and wearing light armor does not remove the +3 Dexterity bonus limit. They can use shields normally and if they choose they can wear Medium or Heavy armor.​

Kobold

1-2) DEX +2
3) WIS +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
4.5) Perceptive : Proficiency in Perception
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
5) Draconic Ancestry (see Dragonborn)
6) Natural Hide : The character has tough hide that increases their unarmored Armor Class to 11 + their Dexterity modifier. Wearing armor does not stack with their Natural Armor Class but they can use shields normally or choose to wear armor.
7) Pack Tactics
--or--
7) Wings : The character can Fly 25 feet using Acrobatics for maneuverability but can only do so if carrying a light load​

Dwarf-Hill

1-2) CON +2
3) WIS +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
4.5) Dwarven Tools : The character gains proficiency in any 2 of the following Tools (Brewer’s Tools, Jeweler’s Tools, Mason’s Tools, Miner’s Tools, Smith’s Tools, Vehicles-Land).
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
+0) Rock Solid : The character is particularly dense and is unaffected by Encumbrance up to their maximum carrying capacity and gain a +5 bonus to their Athletics when shoving or being shoved but they weigh as much as heavy person 2 feet taller than they are and as such they cannot swim for they sink like rocks.
**) Base Height 3'8" + (2d4)"
**) Base Weight 197 lbs +([the 2d4" roll] x 2d6) lbs
5) Dwarf Combat Training
6) Dwarf Resilience
7) Toughness​

Dwarf-Mountain

1-2) CON +2
3-4) STR +2
5) Senses: Low Light Vision
5.5) Stone Cunning : Whenever the character makes an Intelligence check related to gems or stone (Nature), the origin of Stonework (History), or finding a hidden stone door (Investigation) they are considered Proficient in that skill and further add double their proficiency bonus for that check, instead of using just their normal proficiency bonus (if any).
-1) Base Speed 25 ft
+0) Rock Solid (see above)
**) Base Height 4'0" + (2d4)"
**) Base Weight 212 lbs +([the 2d4" roll] x 2d6) lbs
5-6) Dwarf Combat Training
7) Dwarf Resilience​

Dwarf-Gnome Based on the Deep Gnome these are my "magic-using" dwarves

1) INT +1
2) WIS +1
3) INT or WIS +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
4.5) Scholarly : The character has proficiency in either the Arcana skill if they took a +1 to Intelligence or the Religion skill if they took a +1 to Wisdom
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
+0) Rock Solid (see above)
**) Base Height 3'8" + (2d4)"
**) Base Weight 197 lbs +([the 2d4" roll] x 2d6) lbs
5-6) Magic Cunning (see Gnome Cunning)
7) Dwarf Resilience​

Half-Elf

1) CHA +1
2-3) 1+ to 2 different Ability Scores (One can be Charisma making it a total of +2)
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Fey Ancestry
6) Keen Senses : The character is treated as having proficiency in the Perception skill and if they actually obtain proficiency in the Perception skill then their proficiency bonus is doubled for this skill.
Based on where the free ranging +1 Abilities were placed choose one of the following
7) Elf Weapon Training (requires +1 into STR or DEX)
–– OR ––
7) Fleet of Foot & Mask of the Wild (requires +1 into DEX or WIS)
–– OR ––
7) Cantrip (requires +1 into INT for Wizard, WIS for Druid or CHA for Sorcerer)​

Human

1-6) +1 to Each Ability
7) Choose 1 Skill and Tool Proficiency
--or--
1-3) +1 to 3 Different Abilities
4-5) Versatility : The character gains proficiency in any combination of 3 of their choice : 1 Skill or 2 Tools or 2 Languages. For instance, they could take 1 of each or a total of 6 languages.
6-7) Feat​

Half-Orc

1) STR +1
2) CON +1
3) Any Ability +1 (Can include STR or CON for a total of +2)
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Naturally Menacing : The character is treated as having proficiency in the Intimidation skill and if they actually obtain proficiency in the Intimidation skill then their proficiency bonus is doubled for this skill.
6) Aggressive : As a bonus action, the character can move up to their speed toward an enemy of their choice that they can sense. They must use at least half of this movement (if possible) to move closer to the enemy than where they started.
7) Savage Attacks​

Half-Black Orc

1) STR +1
2) CON +1
3) WIS +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Naturally Menacing (see above)
6-7) Choose 2 (1 Skill & 1 Weapon Proficiency, Aggressive (see above), or Savage Attacks)​

Orc

1) STR +1
2) CON +1
3) (STR or CON) +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Naturally Menacing (see above)
6) Aggressive (see above)
7) Savage Attacks​

Black Orc

1) STR +1
2) CON +1
3) (STR or CON) +1
4) WIS +1
5) Senses: Low Light Vision
6) Naturally Menacing (see above)
7) Aggressive (see above) or Savage Attacks​

Goliath

1-2) STR +2
3) CON +1
4) Natural Athlete : The character is treated as having proficiency in the Athletic skill and if they actually obtain proficiency in the Athletic skill then their proficiency bonus is doubled for this skill.
5) Pain Mitigation : The character can focus themselves to occasionally shrug off injury. When they take damage, they can use their reaction to roll a d12 and add their Constitution modifier to the number rolled. This total is then used to reduce the damage sustained. After the character uses this trait, they cannot use it again until they finish a short or long rest.[/tt]
6) Powerful Build
7) Physical Resilience : Their physical resiliency makes them considered to be naturally adapted to all normal environmental conditions​

Halfling-Lightfoot

1-2) DEX +2
3) CHA +1
3.5) Brave
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
4) Lucky
5) Overlooked : They can easily blend into a crowd of any size, and make a hide attempt even if they are only lightly obscured or only obscured by a creature of medium size or larger.
6) Naturally Stealthy : The character is treated as having proficiency in the Stealth skill and if they actually obtain proficiency in the Stealth skill then their proficiency bonus is doubled for this skill.
6.5) Affable : The character gains Skill Proficiency with one of the following skills : Deception, Performance, or Persuasion
7) Halfling Nimbleness.​

Halfling-Stout

1-2) DEX +2
3) CON +1
3.5) Brave
-0.5) Base Speed 25 ft
4) Lucky
5) Stout Resilience
6) Overlooked (see above)
6.5) Industrious : The character gains proficiency with any one set of Artisan’s Tools and 1 of any other Tool of their choosing.
7) Halfling Nimbleness​

Tiefling

1-2) CHA +2
3) INT +1
4) Senses: Low Light Vision
5) Hellish Resilience : The character has Advantage on saving throws against fire, and they have resistance to fire damage.
6-7) Infernal Legacy
.​

Okay I realize that is a lot to chew on but I am hoping to get some solid feedback on the overall balance and pros/cons that others might see to these adjustments.

 

[clearstream]

Dark Vision

Dark Vision is something that I completely (as I have always) disagree with as a common sense. For IMHO it destroys the basic atmosphere -- why would any of those races use "torches" or other sources of light underground as they would have no need -- that and there are absolutely no creatures that exist (in our world) that have a sense anywhere near that. Of course we do have creatures that possess Dark Sight and it seems like a viable substitute. So what do you all see as the pros and cons to replacing Dark Vision with a combination of Low Light Vision and Dark Sight (10 ft) with the latter representing a combination of trained or enhanced senses along with other training to operate without eyesight.​

I feel like the real issue with Darkvision is that some races have it, and others don't. If everyone had it, fine. If no one had it, probably better. The mixture is vexing. That said, nerfing Darkvision would make sense to me. Probably to 30'.

Now on to balancing the Races. I have always disliked how certain races were the go to because they simply were hands down better than any other race so a long time ago I dug into that and tweaked my races to be balanced. Every race had a certain number of benefits and some had some banes that were thus covered by an additional benefit. So I got used to doing this and can to some degree eye-ball these things now. Now while I have to admit 5e has done a much better job at balancing the races they still IMO are not quite there. Still I would like feed back on the pros and cons of doing this before I implement it (not the pros and cons of implementing or not implementing but the pros and cons after implementing) in order to perhaps tweak the races in a better way maintain overall balance.

I work in feats (+2 stat = a feat, or +1 stat = a half-feat) but the principle is the same.

The races are really hard to parse. Could they be tabulated with before and after side by side, and core races separated from expansions?​

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Okay was looking at the various races to allow within my next online game and like usual their balance is speculative at best.
.
However before I get started with the races in general let me address first the subject of Dark Vision.
.
Dark VisionDark Vision is something that I completely (as I have always) disagree with as a common sense. For IMHO it destroys the basic atmosphere -- why would any of those races use "torches" or other sources of light underground as they would have no need --

It helps when you bear in mind that Darkvision is very bad vision. Sure, its better than no vision underground, but it never gets better than a human trying to see at night. - Dim light.

Races with the capability to make fire or other light are going to want to do so whenever they want to see things properly and feel safe to do so.

 

[DeJoker]

I feel like the real issue with Darkvision is that some races have it, and others don't. If everyone had it, fine. If no one had it, probably better. The mixture is vexing. That said, nerfing Darkvision would make sense to me. Probably to 30'.

Okay nerfing it to 30' still gives a sense that no normal creature has which is why I am so against it. If no natural creature has it, how would any creature adapt such an ability. In my view, they would not so I replace Dark Vision (it still exists mind you) with Low Light Vision and Dark Sight 10 ft radius --- which both exist and are possessed by normal creatures.

I work in feats (+2 stat = a feat, or +1 stat = a half-feat) but the principle is the same.

Problem with that is a Feat = +2 Attribute where a Benefit = +1 Attribute so it makes it a lot harder to break down the race abilities as some of them are only were 1/2 a feat and I like to work in whole numbers

The races are really hard to parse. Could they be tabulated with before and after side by side, and core races separated from expansions?

They are tabulated above with the before and after aspects -- problem is putting that in a post is extremely difficult -- if you want to do that just pull the items out individually and plug them into a spreadsheet which is what I did when I was building them.

 

[clearstream]

Problem with that is a Feat = +2 Attribute where a Benefit = +1 Attribute so it makes it a lot harder to break down the race abilities as some of them are only were 1/2 a feat and I like to work in whole numbers

Using the coarser unit acknowledges the level of inaccuracy in estimation.

 

[DeJoker]

Races with the capability to make fire or other light are going to want to do so whenever they want to see things properly and feel safe to do so.

Okay but they would not need to waste resources to light up their entire living abode as is generally outlined in most stories. Further this does not address the more important issue that no creature that exists has an ability that even resembles dark vision the closest thing you get is Low Light Vision and Dark Sight -- which is what I am suggesting should be used to replace Dark Vision as a standard racial ability and leave Dark Vision to the 2nd level spell and thus magic where it (imho) belongs.

 

[DeJoker]

Using the coarser unit acknowledges the level of inaccuracy in estimation.

Hmmm personally I think it would give room for greater inaccuracy. If you have a box of 10 objects and you put that on a scale to count it using its weight and the scale was gauged to 5 of those objects the accuracy of its 10 would be better than if you then put say 1000 objects into that box would it be exactly 1000 or would it be off by one or two -- the truth is it is generally off by a small percentage but since it speeds up the process by about 100 fold the error is considered to be insignificant and thus viable.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Okay but they would not need to waste resources to light up their entire living abode as is generally outlined in most stories.

Kinda depends on which stories. Drow do so as a display of opulence and arrogance. Dwarves do it probably so that they can actually see and appreciate the craftsmanship of their possessions and so they can see the details of the rock face that they're swinging a pickaxe at etc.

Further this does not address the more important issue that no creature that exists has an ability that even resembles dark vision the closest thing you get is Low Light Vision and Dark Sight -- which is what I am suggesting should be used to replace Dark Vision as a standard racial ability and leave Dark Vision to the 2nd level spell and thus magic where it (imho) belongs.

Indeed. Darkvision could almost be . . . magical.

 

[DeJoker]

Indeed. Darkvision could almost be . . . magical.

I might be wrong but it reads like you were being factious. So yes and it just so happens that nearly every race and non-normal creature within the world possess this bit of magic and yet only a few do not even though many of them live in a similar environment to those that do not have it is something I find indigestible as such I am doing away with it. You of course are free to keep it.

That being said the question rolls back around to does Low Light Vision plus Dark Sight 10 ft seem like a equitable trade off to Dark Vision?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

That being said the question rolls back around to does Low Light Vision plus Dark Sight 10 ft seem like a equitable trade off to Dark Vision?

OK. Is Low Light Vision the same as it was in 3.5? If so, that on its own may be about equal.
What is Dark Sight?