D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Tony Vargas]

Using the point-buy in the 5E PHB (although any point-buy that doesn't include every score from 3 to 18 has the same disadvantage), show me how I can use my 27 points to purchase a (pre-racials) score of below 8 or above 15.

Hey, if you can invoke a variation using cards to mitigate the disadvantage of radically different overall stats with random generation, I think it's fair to consider other version of point buy than the one in the 5e PH.

I would say that just about any system that allows you to place numbers wherever you want is going to reward system mastery.

Sure. Arranging does that, too, array for instance. Point buy lets you do more of it, in more detail. It's more susceptible to system mastery than other methods. Giving ceilings (and especially floors) to point by mitigates that disadvantage. Removing them, so you can get the 3's and 18's Arial wants, emphasizes it.

Roll-in-order minimizes that system mastery aspect, though choice of class &c would still let you apply some (mostly pretty obvious: oh, I rolled an 18 INT, guess I have to be wizard, boo-hoo).

Unless of course your system is that everyone starts out with the ability scores of a commoner.

Or straight whatevers, sure. Arrange those six 13's however you like. Take your time to find the optimal combo.

 

[Oofta]

Yes, and the limitations of 5E are 3 to 18 before racials. That is the valid idea space. Point-buy denies us every concept that has a number outside 8 to 15, AND denies us every concept that only has 8 to 15 unless it adds up to 27 points.

And in your opinion that is a bad thing. In my opinion it is not. I'm also denied implementing the concept of Superman. So?

 

[Arial Black]

No, it's your opinion that not being able to purchase a score that is not available is a bad thing.

How much I miss having access to those numbers is my opinion.

The fact they those numbers are unavailable is an objective truth.

 

[Caliban]

How does it make any difference to the DM?

It can make a huge difference. I've played Demi-gods and Peasants before. As a DM, having everyone start off within the same range makes it much easier to plan encounters.

One would think she's just going to present the same adventures and challenges she has in mind to start with, no matter how well equipped - or not - the party may be to handle them.

*shrug* One would be wrong then.

 

[Caliban]

How much I miss having access to those numbers is my opinion.

The fact they those numbers are unavailable is an objective truth.

Whether or not that is an advantage or disadvantage is an opinion.

 

[Lanefan]

Which is all to say ... in your opinion it's a disadvantage of point buy. I think it's a benefit since it levels the playing field.

Ya know, despite our disagreements I can somewhat get behind the idea of levelling the playing field. To a point.

Superman, to follow your example, has no place in a D&D game.

The question then becomes one of how level does it have to be to count as "level"? Smooth-as-marble (as given by array)? Level but with some bumps and hollows like a stucco wall (as given by point-buy)? Level from a distance but with swells and waves when seen from close up, like an ocean (as given by most rolling systems)?

Lan-"the ocean is never still"-efan

 

[Arial Black]

And in your opinion that is a bad thing. In my opinion it is not. I'm also denied implementing the concept of Superman. So?

So, the concepts that go with those numbers are unavailable.

If one Soviet supermarket has only bread and salt to sell, and another supermarket across the street sells bread, salt, and hundreds more items, then the second supermarket has an advantage over the first.

That advantage remains an objective truth. The fact that some people might only want to buy bread and salt does not take that objective truth away, just because they have a subjective opinion re: the deliciousness of salted bread.

 

[Caliban]

So, the concepts that go with those numbers are unavailable.

Requiring a specific (extreme) stat in order to play your character isn't a concept. That's being a prima donna.

Not all concepts can be realized at level 1. Sometimes you actually need to put in some work.

 

[Lanefan]

It can make a huge difference. I've played Demi-gods and Peasants before. As a DM, having everyone start off within the same range makes it much easier to plan encounters.

I would hope and expect that the DM has at least the first adventure planned out before the roll-up session, if for no other reason than if roll-up goes quickly we can dive into adventuring the same night and not miss a beat.

And said pre-planning obviously cannot take into account what the players are going to roll up (or buy, or put their arrays into) as this step hasn't happened yet.

If the players roll well or choose an excellent selection of classes etc. then maybe that first adventure goes easy on them. Great!

If they roll poorly or choose a bizarre or highly sub-optimal set of classes then that first adventure might eat the PCs alive. Still great!

Lanefan

 

[Yardiff]

A suggestion, to be sure, but not a rule: nowhere does he say that characters without 2 15+ scores must be rerolled.


Lan-"if I do roll 18-18-16-x-x-x I'll happily play it, knowing full well I'll likely get 15-13-11-x-x-x for the next one"-efan

Its a fairly strong suggestion especially when combine with pg 11 of DMG...

"As AD&D is an ongoing game of fantasy adventuring, it is important to allow participants to generate a viable character of the race and profession which he or she desires. While it is possible to generate some fairly playable characters by rolling 3d6, there is often an extended period of attempts at finding a suitable one due to quirks of the dice. Furthermore, these rather marginal characters tend to have short life expectancy - which tends to discourage new players, as does having to make do with some character of a race and/or class which he or she really can't or won't identify with. Character generation, then, is a serious matter, and it is recommended that the following systems be used."

Add generation methods 0 - IV. 0 being 3d6 straight.