D&D 5E Thought Experiment: More ASI/Feats at cost of class level

[Blue]

This is purely a thought experiment to invite discussion, not an actually suggested houserule.

Ina game that allowed multiclassing, what if there was a class like this:

HD: d6
Proficiencies & Skills: None

1 ... ASI
2 ... ASI
3 ... ASI
...

In other words, a class you could multiclass into (you really wouldn't want it at character level 1 with no skills or proficiencies) that whenever you took a level of it you get minimal HPs and an ASI/feat. At the opportunity cost that you're not advancing in any class.

Mind you, you are still advancing as a character - proficiency increases, cantrip damage goes up, you do get some HPs. XP needed for next level goes up as usual. And the other players are getting nifty features.

How would this change the feel of the game? Is it a must have, a trap option, or an occasionally useful tool that fits some builds?

Would it get used at low levels when an ASIs are most valuable but you have so few levels of features. Would it get used at high levels, when the best value ASI & feats have already been picked? At mid levels?

 

[Satyrn]

It looks like the kind of thing I'd take every level as a fighter after picking up the champion or battlemaster.

Though I think at some point I'd have to pick up the toughness feat to compensate for the lower hit die, I think that'd still be sweeter.

 

[Blue]

It looks like the kind of thing I'd take every level as a fighter after picking up the champion or battlemaster.

Though I think at some point I'd have to pick up the toughness feat to compensate for the lower hit die, I think that'd still be sweeter.

Great point - non-spell casters get significantly less features than a caster, so it's more worthwhile to get these (and there are a good number of ASI and feats that will directly help weapon wielders).

 

[Satyrn]

Great point - non-spell casters get significantly less features than a caster, so it's more worthwhile to get these (and there are a good number of ASI and feats that will directly help weapon wielders).

Aye. And even the feats that don't directly help weapon wielders may be better than most of the class features that don't directly help weapon wielders . . . and ASIs can be better than most every other numeric feat or class feature,

I don't know how many levels of this ASI class I'd really be taking, but I think it would be lots.

And as a sidenote, I realized it's after 5th level (extra attack! ) that this class starts looking very desirable.

 

[mellored]

Seems fine, though I would increase it to d8.

Maybe make it 1/3 caster as well.

 

[Blue]

And as a sidenote, I realized it's after 5th level (extra attack! ) that this class starts looking very desirable.

But part of that is missing out on the bump at 11th level, as well as the other features.

 

[Satyrn]

But part of that is missing out on the bump at 11th level, as well as the other features.

True, but my table rarely hits 11th level, so I'd rather have a few more ASIs instead.

I wonder if I'd ever take the ASI if I was playing something else, though. Certainly not if I was a spellcaster as those spell slots I'd be missing out on are too valuable

 

[Blue]

True, but my table rarely hits 11th level, so I'd rather have a few more ASIs instead.

I wonder if I'd ever take the ASI if I was playing something else, though. Certainly not if I was a spellcaster as those spell slots I'd be missing out on are too valuable

Another great point - how far you expect to go can have a big impact. If you don't see character defining features coming up in the levels between "now" and "the end", might as well take more ASIs and feats.

So far the most excitement you've had is with non-casters. Let's see though if that can apply some to casters.

You're a 9th level full caster of choice. You hit 10th and the DM says your'e on the final adventure - you won't hit 11th. Do you take the level of your class which includes a few more slots and a feature or do you take an ASI/feat because it won't hold you back in the future, you're already at max spell level.

I'm not looking for an "always", a "in that case I might do it" is also interesting.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I made a class that started out based on a similar idea.

Ultimately I decided the ASIs needed to be spread out, so I grant them at 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, and 19.

Additionally, I also grant a +1 to an ability score (max 20) at levels 3, 7, 10, 13, 17, and 20.

The rest of the level climb is gaining proficiency with various skills, weapons, and saving throws.

It's meant to be a very bland and generic class, as I allow my players to use monster racial classes that I've created (ala Savage Species from 3rd edition). While sometimes it makes sense for a monster to transition to a traditional class after they complete their racial class, I've seen it distort the concept in some cases. Hence, I wanted a class that was basic enough that anyone, regardless of concept, could be justified in taking it without needing a shoehorn.

 

[Blue]

It's meant to be a very bland and generic class, as I allow my players to use monster racial classes that I've created (ala Savage Species from 3rd edition). While sometimes it makes sense for a monster to transition to a traditional class after they complete their racial class, I've seen it distort the concept in some cases. Hence, I wanted a class that was basic enough that anyone, regardless of concept, could be justified in taking it without needing a shoehorn.

I love the concept of the 3ed Savage Species, but I've problems with it's execution. Still trying to find the right balance between them.

The problem I had with execution was around one 3ed concept: HD+ECL - the insistence that every HD was equal to a class level I strongly disliked. First many of the monster types were significantly weaker than PC classes, it just didn't work out. Add in dead levels of ECL that did very little (not even increase max skill levels IIRC?) and it really handicapped you mechanically. Plus it made spellcasters basically impossible.

Actually, I'd love a system that started around level -2 or -3. All races have racial classes of varying lengths, with the "standard" race having 1st level as early teen, 2nd level as full adult and 3rd level as a "paragon". Plus a bunch of "background" 2 level long classes like urchin, nomad, high society, arcane school, soldier, and so forth. So you built your character with 3 levels taking at least 1 race and 1 background, and then level 1 is your first level of adventuring. Once everyone has racial levels fitting in races all over the place and not balanced against each other - just balanced at any particular level - becomes easy. A teen can age up to an adult by taking the second racial level, and any adult can take that single "paragon" level if you want to be even more elfy or whatever.

An example, you could have a human teen / urchin / acolyte. Or an dwarven adult / soldier. Or an elven teen / arcane school 2.