D&D 5E Xanathar's and Counterspell

[Caliban]

Shifting the goalposts to a slightly different but no less dishonest method? You're actually positing that there is no choice of which spell is being cast before asking if the DM (or other player) is going to identify or counterspell it, and that this isn't equally as dishonest? The Cast a Spell action isn't independant of the spell being cast -- the very choice of spell dictates the action necessary to cast and the parameters of the spell. Arguing that you declare you're casting a spell, wait to see what everyone else is going to do about it, and then pick the spell being cast is a perverse reading of the rules that you'd only ever do to try to justify dishonesty in a player as okay. It's not, and you're defending dishonesty in some perverse attempt to not have your argument be shown as only a problem if dishonesty is involved.

I think the rule is stupid - it adds little to no value and significantly increases complexity and questions of timing and also allows opportunity (and incentive) for dishonesty. We don't disagree there. We apparently disagree that exploiting the rule in the manner you suggest is anything other than rank dishonesty. We also disagree that it's valuable to defend this and accuse others of poor behavior for pointing it out.

Bwhahahaha... You are just trying to pick a fight now.

You vastly overestimate how much I care about this. Like I said, I find this whole thing amusing. You can be all pissy if you want, I'll just be over here laughing.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Where is this "metagaming" rule you speak of?

If you don't know the answer, then I recommend you start a new thread about it, and I'm sure the good folks of ENWorld will enlighten you.

 

[Caliban]

If you don't know the answer, then I recommend you start a new thread about it, and I'm sure the good folks of ENWorld will enlighten you.

Well, if you are going to accuse someone of cheating, there should be a rule in the book that they are breaking. Are you saying there isn't one?

I'm shocked and appalled.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

You might not know the first time, or the second time, it becomes pretty obvious sooner than later.

That's opinion, not fact. The issue is that this situation leads to people making assumptions, either correct or false.

Besides, how often do you have enemy spellcasters who can cast counterspell? Because that's the only time you would need to do this, even if you do have a cheater at the table. It's not like you have to do this every encounter.

I have spellcasters in games that range from 9th to 19th level. And yeah, I've had it come up quite a bit (see my earlier post).

I already went over how this improves the game (page 11 I think). You're welcome to disagree, and I'm fairly certain that the WOTC ninjas won't show up at your house even if you so.

And I've illustrated how it doesn't improve the game. WotC has already allowed this rule to be used in Adventurers' League if a DM sanctions it's use in their game, so yeah, it will be showing up for lots of players whether they want it or not.

Metagaming.

What about players/DMs using Counterspell in reaction to another Counterspell? I mean, one side casts a spell and the other side uses a reaction to immediately cast another spell. That second spell is going to be, in nearly all cases, Counterspell. So deciding to cast Counterspell against that is purely done from out-of-character knowledge of how spellcasting works in D&D. AKA, Metagaming.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Bwhahahaha... You are just trying to pick a fight now.

You vastly overestimate how much I care about this. Like I said, I find this whole thing amusing. You can be all pissy if you want, I'll just be over here laughing.

Nope, I was pretty sure you thought it was funny to troll this all along. Thanks for confirming so we can drop this sidebar!

 

[Fanaelialae]

Well, if you are going to accuse someone of cheating, there should be a rule in the book that they are breaking. Are you saying there isn't one?

I'm shocked and appalled.

Last I checked, there is no rule in Monopoly stating that you're not allowed to take my money if I have to step away from the game. It's still cheating though.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Last I checked, there is no rule in Monopoly stating that you're not allowed to take my money if I have to step away from the game. It's still cheating though.

What? There's no rule about that? I've been playing it all wrong for years!!!!

 

[Caliban]

Last I checked, there is no rule in Monopoly stating that you're not allowed to take my money if I have to step away from the game. It's still cheating though.

So that's a "no" then? Thanks for confirming that you are willing to accuse someone of cheating despite no rules being broken. All it takes is for them to play the game in a fashion you don't personally approve of. I'm glad that's settled.

Not that I'm making a moral judgement or anything.

 

[Caliban]

Nope, I was pretty sure you thought it was funny to troll this all along. Thanks for confirming so we can drop this sidebar!

What was your first clue?

 

[Fanaelialae]

So that's a "no" then? Thanks for confirming that you are willing to accuse someone of cheating despite no rules being broken. All it takes is for them to play the game in a fashion you don't personally approve of. I'm glad that's settled.

Not that I'm making a moral judgement or anything.

Have it your way. I cast fireball.