D&D 5E (2024) An Optional Counterspell Metagame

[Horwath]

Counter spell:
1st level abjuration
cast time: Reaction
range 150ft
counter one spell that you can see being cast within range.
spell must be one spell level lower than level of counterspell used(cantrips count as 0-level spells).

now there is opportunity cost. spell slot of a level higher than spell countered.

 

[tetrasodium]

I was thinking this

Countercantrip​

Abjuration cantrip (Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard)

Casting Time: Reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components
Range: 60 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous

You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a cantrip. The creature makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted.

A cantrip that counters only cantrips. You'd still need to choose it as one of your cantrips.

There are almost no monsters that cast cantrips, cultist has a sickle & even archmages have a noncantrip unique attack with the lich being similar. It seems like a solution in search of a problem that doesn't exist or a must take thumb twiddling homebrew penalty

 

[AnotherGuy]

Counterspell
As per PHB, except as amended below.

Cantrips are automatically countered.

The DC is 10 adjusted for the following
+ Level of the spell being Counterspelled
- Level of the Counterspell (so at least 3 or higher)
-1 if the spell being Counterspelled is of the same School (if the Counterspeller is a Specialist)
+1 for Concentration spells

Races, Items and Locations may provide further modifiers to certain spells or school of spells.
Some races may have a strong or weaker connection to the Weave (or whatever represents the Weave in your world) and thus their spells are harder or easier to Counterspell.
Spell foci made of certain materials may provide a benefit or penalty.
Locations (Planes, Dimensions, Hallowed/Unhallowed etc) may provide a benefit or penalty.

Supernatural abilities (think 3.x) that cannot be Counterspelled.

 

[Minigiant]

There are almost no monsters that cast cantrips, cultist has a sickle & even archmages have a noncantrip unique attack with the lich being similar. It seems like a solution in search of a problem that doesn't exist or a must take thumb twiddling homebrew penalty

Im a DM who homebrews and knows the damage/cr numbers.

Plus no MM monster will know custom counterspells that WOTC didnt design. It would assumed that I'm giving them new spell loadouts.

 

[TheSword]

I’d probably not go that way. As spells known is already a precious resource. I just wouldn’t select multiple versions of the same spell.

 

[Cergorach]

I’d probably not go that way. As spells known is already a precious resource. I just wouldn’t select multiple versions of the same spell.

That is part of the 'problem', but the issue of adding stuff is not that you add one option, you add one thing that can interact with countless other things, the more you add, the worse it gets. This was my biggest issue with 3e where we as a group decided to allow everything officially released.

An example of the counter cantrip: You can suddenly counter all the Warlocks attacks with just one infinitely usable cantrip. Now imagine a first level caster countering a Feather Fall. I would say it would unhinge the entire spellcasting system in D&D and with it everything else as well.

 

[Minigiant]

I’d probably not go that way. As spells known is already a precious resource. I just wouldn’t select multiple versions of the same spell.

You select multiple damage spells as a full caster.

 

[tetrasodium]

Im a DM who homebrews and knows the damage/cr numbers.

That's great but irrelevant to my point

Plus no MM monster will know custom counterspells that WOTC didnt design. It would assumed that I'm giving them new spell loadouts.

You are effectively asking for feedback on what we think about half of a Homebrew change while we have absolutely no idea about how the other half might look like how often it shows up or how threatening/trivial it might be when encountered

 

[Scribe]

I don't think anyone gets to have an opinion on Counterspell Sub-Games unless they have played an entire tournament season of Magic: The Gathering where the Top Deck was a Deck that was full of kill- and counterspells that won the mirror match by reshuffling the entire graveyard into the deck again and making your opponent run out of cards quicker than you or pushing through a single creature token threat by counterspelling their counterspell which they also counterspelled most of the time.

 

[NotAYakk]

I was thinking about the households for a game if planned to DM and I remembered an idea I thought up.

A counterspelling meta

Look, if you want to make counterspelling fun, please don't make it save-or-suck.

The best counterspells aren't counterspells.

1. A counterspell that replaces damage dice with d4s ("stifle"). The creature whose spell is countered gets to reroll damage dice on their next spell.
2. A counterspell that changes a target of a spell to a random valid creature (if aoe, it centers on this random creature). Caster can save repeatedly to make it pick a different random valid creature until happy or fails the save (DC increases by 1 each time).
3. A counterspell that changes a spell to a random spell from $table$, based off of the school of the spell, with the same targets. Caster can save to reroll the random spell repeatedly (DC increases by 1 each time).
4. A counterspell that delays a spell for at least 1 round. (if you have cover when it goes off at the end of the original caster's next turn, you avoid it). Caster saves each round to release the spell (DC decreases by 1 each time).
5. A counterspell that includes the caster of the spell in the effect of the spell.
6. A counterspell that does $element damage to the caster, forcing a concentration save to finish the spell. If the spell is finished and the damage matches the spell damage, the damage is done again.
7. A counterspell that does something always, but does something extra if you match schools of the spell being countered.

None of these make the spell cast "go away". So instead of magic combat becoming "nothing happens as counterspells fly", we get the game narrative changing and advancing in a way that isn't "you have fewer spell slots".

The ideal counterspell should

a) Ensure that the game state has changed in an interesting way after it and the original action have occurred.
b) Be significantly different if the spell cast doesn't match the spell details you expect them to cast, allowing counter play.
c) Doesn't "do nothing" even if the spell cast doesn't match the spell details you expect them to cast. Reduced effect is ok!

Treat spell slots and actions as narrative chips to spend. When spent, try to have something happen.

(This is also true of MTG: "deflecting swat" is an infinitely better counterspell than "counterspell" in design if not power).

Freezing the narrative is boring, as is this did nothing because a check was passed.

(Ideally we'd apply this to martial PCs as well.)