D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

[Sadras]

What they failed to realize was that many minority supers fans (like myself) like the established characters as is, and would much rather they launch new minority characters that succeed or fail on their own merits rather than...errr...”reskinning” old characters. In a way, it feels like “hand-me-downs”.

Instead of Thor being made female, why not create a character based on the Valkyries? Or the Furies? Or Athena? Durga? Sekhmet? The Morrígan?

Hell, it doesn’t even have to be NEW characters. Instead of making Iron Man a black girl, write better stories for War Machine, Luke Cage and Falcon.

Comics are a messy business with so much bad writing everywhere. DC hasn't come off unscathed either even when introducing new minority characters especially in the Green Lantern titles.

Simon Baz a Lebanese American Muslim and Jessica Cruz a Latina American Green Lantern (first woman GL of Earth) both ideas have proven not to have done well for the sales. Sure there are other factors (Geoff Johns influence and the rise in technology and decline of reading), but these minority characters were not necessary when there were solid minority characters such as as John Stewart or Jade.

Anyways, what is done is done.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

If you're gonna poo-poo Kimberle Crenshaw's work (ditto Patricia Hill-Collins and other Black feminists), at least know what she says about the terminology she came up with (which "intersectionalist" is...not the correct form of). It sounds like calling D&D 5e bad game design because of THAC0.

I have no idea who those people are off hand and I don't know if they were the source of the comments I read though apparently the ideas originated with her/them. It was some woman ranting on youtube where I first heard it if I recall correctly though I've read the idea since the in a couple articles.

 

[Shasarak]

Well there was a Seinfeld episode, where the company had to let Kramer go, even though he wasn't even employed by the company. #Truestory.

I guess it would of been a much shorter episode if they had just tweeted him that he was fired.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well strangely enough here's an article stating that Jane Foster as Thor is Marvels second highest selling book and also makes the case that Marvels claims of diversity causing sales to drop doesnt really seem to add up...

https://nerdist.com/marvel-diversity-comics-david-gabriel-wrong/

One of the big shots at marvel was discussing the impact on sales, and painted a negative picture. Maybe he was incorrect or things have changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...hasis-on-diversity-may-have-alienated-readers

"Marvel’s vice president of sales has blamed declining comic-book sales on the studio’s efforts to increase diversity and female characters, saying that readers “were turning their noses up” at diversity and “didn’t want female characters out there”.

Over recent years, Marvel has made efforts to include more diverse and more female characters, introducing new iterations of fan favourites including a female Thor; Riri Williams, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man storyline as Ironheart; Miles Morales, a biracial Spider-Man and Kamala Khan, a Muslim teenage girl who is the current Ms Marvel.

But speaking at the Marvel retailer summit about the studio’s falling comic sales since October, David Gabriel told ICv2 that retailers had told him that fans were sticking to old favourites. “What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.”

He added: “I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales … Any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up.”

Edit: Apparently you guys already hashed this out so we should get back to the subject at hand.

 

[Imaro]

One of the big shots at marvel was discussing the impact on sales, and painted a negative picture. Maybe he was incorrect or things have changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...hasis-on-diversity-may-have-alienated-readers

"Marvel’s vice president of sales has blamed declining comic-book sales on the studio’s efforts to increase diversity and female characters, saying that readers “were turning their noses up” at diversity and “didn’t want female characters out there”.

Over recent years, Marvel has made efforts to include more diverse and more female characters, introducing new iterations of fan favourites including a female Thor; Riri Williams, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man storyline as Ironheart; Miles Morales, a biracial Spider-Man and Kamala Khan, a Muslim teenage girl who is the current Ms Marvel.

But speaking at the Marvel retailer summit about the studio’s falling comic sales since October, David Gabriel told ICv2 that retailers had told him that fans were sticking to old favourites. “What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.”

He added: “I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales … Any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up.”

Edit: Apparently you guys already hashed this out so we should get back to the subject at hand.

So reading this article...what he really said was that it was some retailers who were claiming low sales due to diversity...and he later clarified the statement more with...

Gabriel later issued a clarifying statement, saying that some retailers felt that some core Marvel heroes were being abandoned, but that there was a readership for characters like Ms Marvel and Miles Morales who “ARE excited about these new heroes”. He added: “And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

“We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! … So we’re getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we’re making is to ensure we don’t lose focus [on] our core heroes.”

 

[Sunseeker]

The person in question is the vice president of sales. Even if his statement is inaccurate (given his position, that's doubtful), his statement still is the stance of the company unless it contradicts him elsewhere.

Also, yeah, the cancellations happened. CB Cebulski has cancelled titles like Guardians of the Galaxy, Iceman, Luke Cage, She Hulk, and The Unbelievable Gwenpool.

But none of those characters were changed, replaced or re-mantled for diversity. The big names that people complain about (Jane Foster Thor, Miles Morales Spiderman, Carol Danvers Captain Marvel and Kamala Khan Ms Marvel) are all doing quite well. GotG, She-Hulk, Iceman, Gwenpool, these were niche comics to begin with, and NONE of them were altered for diversity.

That said, I think the comic industry has decidedly failed to provide interesting, new and refreshing stories for a long time. Worse, they stretch out the dull, the dry and the reused into endlessly running series with OVER 9000 issues of the same dry, boring, rehashed characters and concepts. The fact that a comic gets canceled after 12 issues or so should, IMO be the norm, not the exception.

But in any case, the VP of sales more likely misstated what we all know to be true: they overused the same strategy and it backfired. But where it was executed property, it has succeeded. You can overdo anything, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it at all. It's not an absolute either way.

Oh, I just want to add, as a long-time reader of She-Hulk, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Gray She-Hulk run, and it's covers are some of my favorites.

 

[Imaro]

The person in question is the vice president of sales. Even if his statement is inaccurate (given his position, that's doubtful), his statement still is the stance of the company unless it contradicts him elsewhere.

Only he clarified his statement and thus his stance and what he claimed was that some retailers were claiming the push for diversity hurt their sales (with other claiming it helped theirs)

Also, yeah, the cancellations happened. CB Cebulski has cancelled titles like Guardians of the Galaxy, Iceman, Luke Cage, She Hulk, and The Unbelievable Gwenpool.

Ok you list 2 female led books that were canceled and I can list 7 that haven't been... Captain Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Spider-Gwen, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, Ms. Marvel, and the still female-led Thor and Iron Man. Moreso books are cancelled and rebooted all the time by Marvel and DC so I'm not sure these cancellations can wholly be attributed to too much diversity. In fact here's a Marvel Exec saying it was all about sales and not diversity...

https://www.polygon.com/comics/2017...ancellations-not-motivated-by-books-diversity

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

So reading this article...what he really said was that it was some retailers who were claiming low sales due to diversity...and he later clarified the statement more with...

Gabriel later issued a clarifying statement, saying that some retailers felt that some core Marvel heroes were being abandoned, but that there was a readership for characters like Ms Marvel and Miles Morales who “ARE excited about these new heroes”. He added: “And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

“We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! … So we’re getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we’re making is to ensure we don’t lose focus [on] our core heroes.”

Sure. Though is the same size audience there for Miles Spidey as Peter Parker Spidey or Ironheart as Iron Man? Did sales drop due to changes? I'm sure there are plenty of people who loves those characters, never said there wasn't. But from things I've heard over the past year Marvel is seeing sales drops compared to drops the DC has experienced who haven't gone as far in that direction. Though DC has so many version of the big legacy heroes, Batgirl, batwoman, actually there may be two batwomen. I always hated that about DC, you had the core hero, the kid version, and the women version, and sometimes the animal version.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

So reading this article...what he really said was that it was some retailers who were claiming low sales due to diversity...and he later clarified the statement more with...

Gabriel later issued a clarifying statement, saying that some retailers felt that some core Marvel heroes were being abandoned, but that there was a readership for characters like Ms Marvel and Miles Morales who “ARE excited about these new heroes”. He added: “And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

“We have also been hearing from stores that welcome and champion our new characters and titles and want more! … So we’re getting both sides of the story and the only upcoming change we’re making is to ensure we don’t lose focus [on] our core heroes.”

His statement was later further clarified by cancellation announcement that he wasn't talking about all of them. So, some of them have definitely gone elsewhere, and others might be on the chopping block.

 

[Shasarak]

What some of us are not happy with Mearls about is that he tried to fight back; it's how. He basically engaged the trolls on their terms, on their turf, and in the way that gives them the most advantage.

My problem is him acting like a hypocrite by saying who is and who is not allowed to play DnD.

Like he could do anything about it anyway.