D&D 5E modified ability score calculation

[Sleepy Walker]

I agree that there are a few problems with the proposed method, including new players entering the game and the potential for a player to get shafted. It also seems like it would take a fair bit of time and there would be a significant amount of uncertainty and potentially nervousness during the entire event.

Personally I am not a big fan of it.


I'm just going to throw out a method I've come to adopt recently.

- Set aside 6 numbers. The numbers I use are 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6
- Roll 2d6 for each ability score (in order or not, your choice). Re-roll all 1s as many times as necessary.
- Add one set aside number to each roll
- Done

It is up to the player to decide if they want to min-max or reduce the blow of weak rolls. The best score is at most a single 18 (sans racial modifiers) and the worst score is at worst a single 6. Most rolls will be a 6-8. What I really like about it is it takes just enough of the edge off of random that it makes a viable character most of the time, but still prevents exceedingly powerful characters, with multiple 18s and 20s, from existing. It is also fine-tunable to a point level precision, which means making characters with more or less power is incredibly easy while still maintaining that more random nature of rolling for stats that is so enjoyable.

What I have found using the above method is that most stats end up between 9 and 11, but in the majority of cases there is at least one difficult decision and that is where to put that dang 2. Which is just the way I like it.

 

[squibbles]

Don't discount the possibility that behind-the-scenes drama may lead to one player being penalised by the others. Or, indeed, the others deciding to dump one of their number with bad stats as a prank.

My concern would be that even if there is some give-and-take among the players you have low-level but long term resentment that builds up.

Yeah, those are good points.

Upon reflection, the method I'm considering is probably too zero sum. And zero sum games are pretty drama prone.

Maybe in the first step, I'll have all the players roll twice, so that they feel less like they're competing for scarce resources in step 2. It would also help with the results being on the low side.

 

[delericho]

Yeah, those are good points.

Upon reflection, the method I'm considering is probably too zero sum. And zero sum games are pretty drama prone.

Maybe in the first step, I'll have all the players roll twice, so that they feel less like they're competing for scarce resources in step 2. It would also help with the results being on the low side.

One thing I might suggest: have each player roll 3d6 (or whatever) four times in order. Then give them a 15 and a 14 they can insert at any positions in the array (but they can't change the order of the numbers they've rolled).

(So if they roll 12, 9, 16, 5 they could have 12, 15, 9, 16, 14, 5 or they could have 12, 9, 15, 16, 5, 14; but they couldn't have 15, 12, 14, 5, 9, 16 - because that would mean moving the '5'.)

That guarantees them a couple of good stats, and allows them to construct any character type they want, but also gives good variance in the 'lesser' stats.

 

[ad_hoc]

Hello, I'm a new poster. I would appreciate any and all feedback.

I am considering trying out a method of ability score generation that I have not used before.

Instead of using 5e's standard array, using 4d6 drop the lowest, or using 3d6 in order (god forbid), I intend to use a group-based ability score generation method.

In summary:
Step 1: Each player rolls 3d6 in order.
Step 2: The players swap the ability score arrays that they have rolled, based on what type of PC they want to play (i.e. if you rolled an awesome Int score but don't want to play a Wizard, swap your array with the player who DOES want to play a wizard)
Step 3: The DM rolls 3d6 once per player--each of the DM's rolls can be swapped with any PC's ability score roll.
Step 4: The players, as a group, decide which PCs get to swap ability score rolls with the DM's rolls: One PC can swap ability scores with all of the DM's rolls, each PC can swap one ability score with a score that the DM rolled, every PC can keep his/her own rolls, or the players can choose any permutation in between; it is entirely up to them.

Justification:
This method should lead to balance within the party while also generating PCs with novel ability scores. The 1st and 2nd step should give each player a PC that has, more or less, what they need to play their class (and some bizarre random ability scores besides). The 3rd and 4th step should, then, compensate the players who ended up with the weaker PCs.

My presumption is that players, if given the choice, will be fair. Anybody who accepts a weak PC in the 2nd step will be compensated in the 4th step. But, alternately, if the players decide to give one PC a gratuitously strong set of ability scores, that's cool too; it's their call.

For the more experienced DMs out there: Do you think this method will generate a more balanced party? And, do you think this method will generate more varied PCs?

Thanks in advance,
Squibbles.

What is the goal here?

If you want random stats you should just have random stats. Roll or use cards in order.

If you don't want random stats then use the standard array or point buy.

Rolling tons of times to give the illusion of randomness doesn't seem very productive to me.

 

[squibbles]

What is the goal here?

Good question. I don't think I stated my goals very clearly in the first post.

There are two goals. The first goal is to generate PCs with novel ability scores. I would like to have fewer PCs with good scores in all their important abilities but 8s or 10s in all their non-essential abilities. The second goal is to have a party where the PCs are relatively balanced with one another. I want to prevent what I see as the biggest issue with random ability score generation, where some players roll up super PCs and others get very weak PCs. If the PCs mostly end up with high scores, that's okay, I can adjust the encounters accordingly; same thing if the scores are mostly low.

I also like the idea of all the players generating their ability scores as a party during session zero. Though, as TheCosmicKid points out in post#6, creating special rules for it causes some unnecessary problems.


On a related note, I like delericho's suggestion:

One thing I might suggest: have each player roll 3d6 (or whatever) four times in order. Then give them a 15 and a 14 they can insert at any positions in the array (but they can't change the order of the numbers they've rolled).

I think it would help with the first goal, though I'm not sure it helps with the second goal.

 

[ad_hoc]

Good question. I don't think I stated my goals very clearly in the first post.

There are two goals. The first goal is to generate PCs with novel ability scores. I would like to have fewer PCs with good scores in all their important abilities but 8s or 10s in all their non-essential abilities. The second goal is to have a party where the PCs are relatively balanced with one another. I want to prevent what I see as the biggest issue with random ability score generation, where some players roll up super PCs and others get very weak PCs. If the PCs mostly end up with high scores, that's okay, I can adjust the encounters accordingly; same thing if the scores are mostly low.

I also like the idea of all the players generating their ability scores as a party during session zero. Though, as TheCosmicKid points out in post#6, creating special rules for it causes some unnecessary problems.


On a related note, I like delericho's suggestion:


I think it would help with the first goal, though I'm not sure it helps with the second goal.

Have you thought about using playing cards instead of dice?

The sum of all scores will be the same. Some will still be better than others as any 16+ is desirable to start with a +4 but overall will more tightly balanced than dice.

 

[ccs]

I think that when the smoke clears all you'll really have is more complexity than it's worth.

Just grant everyone a 17 in a stat of their choice before racial mods & have them roll ?d6 either in order or assigned, for the rest.

That way everyones good at something & you'll get your randomness.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

There are two goals. The first goal is to generate PCs with novel ability scores. I would like to have fewer PCs with good scores in all their important abilities but 8s or 10s in all their non-essential abilities. The second goal is to have a party where the PCs are relatively balanced with one another. I want to prevent what I see as the biggest issue with random ability score generation, where some players roll up super PCs and others get very weak PCs. If the PCs mostly end up with high scores, that's okay, I can adjust the encounters accordingly; same thing if the scores are mostly low.

I also like the idea of all the players generating their ability scores as a party during session zero. Though, as TheCosmicKid points out in post#6, creating special rules for it causes some unnecessary problems.

Okay, if the collective generation isn't a primary goal, then playing cards would be my suggestion as well. To spell it out in a little more detail than @ad_hoc: build a deck of 18 cards and deal them out into six piles of three. Sum each pile to get your six ability scores. You can tune the deck to get the power level you want. [Three 1s, three 2s, three 3s, three 4s, three 5s, and three 6s] will produce results equivalent to an average 3d6-in-order roll. For arrays that look more like the 4d6-drop-lowest method, there's no perfect deck, but I recommend something like [one 0, one 1, two 2s, two 3s, three 4s, four 5s, and five 6s].

Or if you think using cards instead of dice is just plain wrong for D&D, you can also normalize dice-generated ability score arrays pretty easily. First, pick a target total or point-buy value or whatever other measure of power level you like. Second, create an array using any normal dice method. Third, roll 1d6 to randomly select a score in that array and add 1 (if the array is below the target) or subtract 1 (if it's above). Repeat step 3 until you've reached the target level.

 

[ad_hoc]

Okay, if the collective generation isn't a primary goal, then playing cards would be my suggestion as well. To spell it out in a little more detail than @ad_hoc: build a deck of 18 cards and deal them out into six piles of three. Sum each pile to get your six ability scores. You can tune the deck to get the power level you want. [Three 1s, three 2s, three 3s, three 4s, three 5s, and three 6s] will produce results equivalent to an average 3d6-in-order roll. For arrays that look more like the 4d6-drop-lowest method, there's no perfect deck, but I recommend something like [one 0, one 1, two 2s, two 3s, three 4s, four 5s, and five 6s].

Or if you think using cards instead of dice is just plain wrong for D&D, you can also normalize dice-generated ability score arrays pretty easily. First, pick a target total or point-buy value or whatever other measure of power level you like. Second, create an array using any normal dice method. Third, roll 1d6 to randomly select a score in that array and add 1 (if the array is below the target) or subtract 1 (if it's above). Repeat step 3 until you've reached the target level.

The simple way to do it is to use the 2s-6s. Take out either 2 4s or a 2 and a 6 depending on which way you want to weight the results.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

The simple way to do it is to use the 2s-6s. Take out either 2 4s or a 2 and a 6 depending on which way you want to weight the results.

Call me sadistic, but I like leaving the possibility of a 3 in there, however remote.