Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2nd Edition

[RevTurkey]

Hi all, I was looking at Pathfinder and their release schedule and it looks to me like they might be ready to announce a 2nd edition this year, probably at Gencon.

They seem to be mirroring AD&D 1st Edition a little bit...that game wound down with the Wilderness Survival Guide and The Manual of the Planes....and what are Paizo releasing? Wilderness and Planar books towards what will probably be the end of the product’s life cycle...looks like a big similarity to me.

D&D 5th Edition and it’s simplification (for better or worse...not trying to start any Ed’ war here) has captured the imagination and hearts of many old and new players and from a business point of view it would be unusual if Paizo didn’t respond to that with a new edition and some streamlining in my view.

I’ve played some great games of Pathfinder but for my tastes it is a little bit bloated, especially the requirements to use books like the Advanced Players Guide or several bestiaries for some of the mid to late period Adventure Paths. I’d like them to make all modules and paths playable with the main rulebook and main bestiary in a new edition...with additional critters statted in the new publications. I would like to see new spells for the spiritual/worshipping classes like the Cleric. I think Magic User spells should be kept for themselves and not used to emulate Domain spells. A slight simplification of some rules would suit my tastes as I am not a very good DM at keeping track of lots of fiddly bits to remember but that is no deal breaker...each game has it’s own dial of complexity I guess.

What would you all change/improve?
What publication style would be best and what direction should the art take?
Do you think it will be announced this year? Maybe a playtest?

Answers on a postcard please....to...The Happy Goblin Inn, Hommlet

 

[gamerprinter]

You could be right, but I doubt it, in fact I don't see a PF 2.0 anytime soon. Starfinder RPG was Paizo's dip into new mechanics, they'll see how that goes before any move to changing Pathfinder - I would still say, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Arilyn]

I agree it needs an update, but is it a good idea from a business stand point? I strongly suspect Paizo has given the question some serious thought, and has good reasons to stay with the current edition for now.

First of all, creating a streamlined, more simplified version risks alienating their fan base, who are, for the most part, really happy with the game. PF fans may not be happy having their large collection of stuff become obsolete. A streamlined version puts Paizo in more direct competition with WOTC, who has the brand name. Even if Paizo created a superior product, it would be extremely difficult to compete with a thriving 5e.

Right now, 5e and PF, while both F20 games, appeal to different groups of players, and it seems to be working so far. Paizo is probably very reluctant to rock that boat. Yes, they have a more streamlined version with Starfinder, but it's a different genre.

When PF starts to fail, then Paizo will shift gears, but until then, it's probably too big a risk. Paizo has proven themselves to be a very savvy company. I wouldn't be surprised if they've got some ideas for a 2e, and Starfinder may very well be partly a test. Until the PF fans demand a change, and start abandoning the game, Paizo is smart to stay the course.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My books of Pahtfinder are in Spanish languange, and I have waited a lot of time to be translated and published. I am waiting the ultimate combat guide, And Devir has no plans to publish any titles, for example The advanced class guide, occult adventures or bestiary 3. I understand we will see a Pahtfinder 2.0, but I don't like the idea of "dead time" without more tittles in my naive language. Do you know how I feel? I bought "Eclipse Phase" and I loved it, but now there is a second edition in the way, and there will be not more tilles in Spanish translation until a lot of time.

What happens to 3d Parties? For example the books about psionic, martial maneuvers and "askhasa magic"(incarnum game mechanics) by Dreamscared Press. A lot of things couldn't be sold because they would need an update.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Do you think it will be announced this year? Maybe a playtest?

Paizo is in a bit of a tricky situation. The only reason that Pathfinder took off, originally, was by avoiding innovation. Existing players were put off by the concept of change, so they turned to 3.5.5 as an alternative to 4E.

The situation is different right now. There's no 4E monster that players are fleeing from in droves. If they try to release a new edition anytime soon, they basically have two options:

1. Double down on disaffected 5E players by releasing 3.5.5.5, basically targeting the demographic that went back to Pathfinder.
2. Target the 5E market directly by releasing 5.5. The problem being that 5E players are, by and large, happy with the game that they have.

In either case, they risk alienating their current (but dwindling) player base. If they botch this, the entire company is dead. They cannot survive a failed launch of a core product.

What would you all change/improve?
What publication style would be best and what direction should the art take?

Honestly, the only thing I want is the ability to describe a hit from a sword as an actual hit. No overnight healing. No weird secondary resource that you can spend to recover naturally. Just let a sword hit feel meaningful.

Honestly, if they wanted to throwback to AD&D in terms of style, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Golarion had already surpassed Faerun in terms of zaniness, so some sort of reset on the gonzo level would be appreciated. Maybe have one or two pictures of humans talking to other humans, and wearing historically-appropriate attire. Maybe thrown in a chart somewhere describing the availability of weapons and armor by culture and time period. Anything to indicate the possibility of dialing the insanity back a level.

 

[Arilyn]

In PF 2e, I would definitely streamline the rules, but keep up the wide variety of character choice in each class. Keep feats, but definitely reduce the number, and be strict about ridiculous specific fests that will just be ignored anyway.

I get what you are saying about the zaniness, Saelorn, but the fans of PF might like that aspect. Does give it lots of room for different kinds of APs. And zaniness was certainly a part of the original DnD game...

 

[Igwilly]

Honestly, the only thing I want is the ability to describe a hit from a sword as an actual hit. No overnight healing. No weird secondary resource that you can spend to recover naturally. Just let a sword hit feel meaningful.

I agree with you in the overnight healing thing, but I don’t know if that could be truly done with the Hit Points system. Sure, you can have tons of healing magic to cover up damage, but that rather makes the entire point meaningless.
That would be a Huge change.

Honestly, if they wanted to throwback to AD&D in terms of style, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Golarion had already surpassed Faerun in terms of zaniness, so some sort of reset on the gonzo level would be appreciated. Maybe have one or two pictures of humans talking to other humans, and wearing historically-appropriate attire. Maybe thrown in a chart somewhere describing the availability of weapons and armor by culture and time period. Anything to indicate the possibility of dialing the insanity back a level.

Both D&D and Pathfinder have well earned the title of Fantasy Kitchen Sink. I expect no less from them.
Plus, it’s not like I play either games in official settings…

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In the RPG industries the most famous and sold franchises are D&D, White Wolf's World of Darkness, and Pathfinder. Really does this need a change now, and why? The true rival isn't D&D 5th but all the old titles in pdf. Today the paper-printed books for roleplay fans are like the collector editions for videogames fanboys.

And Pathfinder isn't only rules, it is also the modules and the lore or background about the world of Goralion, and this is a too good franchise to falls in the oblivion. In the worst case, Paizo could be bought by Hasbro.

Other option may be not a 2nd Ed but a third line, like Starfinder, for example about d20 Superheroes.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I agree with you in the overnight healing thing, but I don’t know if that could be truly done with the Hit Points system. Sure, you can have tons of healing magic to cover up damage, but that rather makes the entire point meaningless.

It worked just fine in AD&D. Healing magic has always been optional, but encouraged.

Both D&D and Pathfinder have well earned the title of Fantasy Kitchen Sink. I expect no less from them.

It is a title that they were burdened with after a certain point, and I think they could unburden themselves of it if they really tried.

 

[Garthanos]

Somehow I do not imagine it will change much at all it succeeded in part because of a refusal to change. (Combined with excellent skills at writing up adventure paths)