Why I dislike Milestone XP

[Oofta]

I'm not convinced that giving XP just for killing monsters is "following the rules". How do you explain all the WoTC adventures that encourage milestone leveling?

We're coming at it from several different angles, but I think it's safe to say that most DMs here would agree that awarding XP just for killing enemies - and only for killing enemies - would not be our chosen way to run a campaign.

It is when you're judging for AL games, unless the mod is written with milestones. There are several alternatives to granting XP or advancing without using XP, but defeating monsters is presented as the default. Unless the mod is written otherwise, it's the only option an AL judge has.

At a certain point if you're rewarding XP for everything why bother with XP? It's just extra overhead. Some people enjoy it, I personally don't see the point and if games are run using just the default it rewards combat and only combat.

 

[Shasarak]

Right. Instead of seeking alliances and attempting to find out more about what was going on to try to minimize casualties of innocent people we should have just kicked down the door and taken out everything in sight. Kill 'em all and let the gods sort it out. Instead of attempting to make a neutral party an ally we could have just wiped them out. Yeah XP!

So you did not get penalised with no reward, you actually got an Ally as a reward.

 

[Oofta]

So you did not get penalised with no reward, you actually got an Ally as a reward.

There are supposed to be 3 pillars of D&D: exploration, social interaction and combat. But unless you are following these rules or using a mod that has it built in as modules, you only get XP for combat.

In a home campaign I probably wouldn't care as much. But AL is not a home campaign and as much as I plan on continuing at the same table with the same DM and character there's no guarantee. Therefore the only reward for my character (not me personally) I can count on from game to game is XP, GP and items.

 

[iserith]

There are supposed to be 3 pillars of D&D: exploration, social interaction and combat. But unless you are following these rules or using a mod that has it built in as modules, you only get XP for combat.

In a home campaign I probably wouldn't care as much. But AL is not a home campaign and as much as I plan on continuing at the same table with the same DM and character there's no guarantee. Therefore the only reward for my character (not me personally) I can count on from game to game is XP, GP and items.

See DMG page 261 for rules on noncombat challenges, plus non-XP rewards (under Milestones).

 

[Caliban]

See DMG page 261 for rules on noncombat challenges, plus non-XP rewards (under Milestones).

Wow, you really don't get it. None of that matters - he's talking about AL, where the possible XP is predetermined for each adventure ahead of time. If the mod only gives XP for combat, that's all you are going to get XP for.

This is a weak argument. You should probably consider dropping it.

 

[Oofta]

See DMG page 261 for rules on noncombat challenges, plus non-XP rewards (under Milestones).

I've read the DMG, I'm familiar with the rule. As [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION] already pointed out for me, it doesn't matter in AL. Unless the mod specifically spells out XP for non-combat encounters it is not granted.

The rules for rewarding XP for non-combat encounters is also presented as alternative options, with the default being XP for combat and only combat.

 

[iserith]

I've read the DMG, I'm familiar with the rule. As [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION] already pointed out for me, it doesn't matter in AL. Unless the mod specifically spells out XP for non-combat encounters it is not granted.

The rules for rewarding XP for non-combat encounters is also presented as alternative options, with the default being XP for combat and only combat.

I have that poster blocked for reasons I hope are obvious, so I'm not able to see the post you reference.

However, in the post I quoted, you mention the three-pillar experience rule or something about mods that did not appear to be in reference to AL. My comment was directed as that specifically, not to your later comment regarding AL. If it was all about AL, please disregard.

I still take issue with your position on a lack of reward being a penalty in any case.

 

[Oofta]

I have that poster blocked for reasons I hope are obvious, so I'm not able to see the post you reference.

However, in the post I quoted, you mention the three-pillar experience rule or something about mods that did not appear to be in reference to AL. My comment was directed as that specifically, not to your later comment regarding AL. If it was all about AL, please disregard.

I still take issue with your position on a lack of reward being a penalty in any case.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Lack of [XP] reward for similar effort is a penalty. It shouldn't matter if that effort falls under combat, exploration or social.

It's like showing up for work at the widget factory, where you are told you have to make red, white and blue widgets but you only get paid for red widgets yet are required to produce all three. When the only orders come in are for white and blue widgets and you don't get paid I think most people would feel penalized.

Of course you could have produced red widgets anyway, even though they weren't called for but that isn't really a solution, that's just gaming the system.

When combat is the only way to gain XP, people are incentivized to prioritize combat. Reward XP for things other than combat in equal measure? Then what's the purpose of XP?

 

[iserith]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Lack of [XP] reward for similar effort is a penalty. It shouldn't matter if that effort falls under combat, exploration or social.

It's like showing up for work at the widget factory, where you are told you have to make red, white and blue widgets but you only get paid for red widgets yet are required to produce all three. When the only orders come in are for white and blue widgets and you don't get paid I think most people would feel penalized.

Of course you could have produced red widgets anyway, even though they weren't called for but that isn't really a solution, that's just gaming the system.

When combat is the only way to gain XP, people are incentivized to prioritize combat. Reward XP for things other than combat in equal measure? Then what's the purpose of XP?

I don't disagree that XP is a good incentive and reward for more than just the combat pillar, depending on the type of game the DM is going for. I do disagree that if you knowingly signed up for a game that only incentivizes and rewards one pillar that you have any justification to call it a penalty when you get no reward for doing anything other than that pillar.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with prioritizing one pillar over another via XP or other rewards. That is one way the DM can structure the game to get at a particular theme.

 

[Oofta]

I don't disagree that XP is a good incentive and reward for more than just the combat pillar, depending on the type of game the DM is going for. I do disagree that if you knowingly signed up for a game that only incentivizes and rewards one pillar that you have any justification to call it a penalty when you get no reward for doing anything other than that pillar.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with prioritizing one pillar over another via XP or other rewards. That is one way the DM can structure the game to get at a particular theme.

I'm tired of arguing semantics, and sometimes you don't have a choice on the game you join. My PC will never advance if I never play. I enjoy AL for a variety of reasons, that doesn't mean I don't find certain aspects annoying, or that I have a choice to join a different game meets my other goals.

To summarize: I prefer games that reward more than just combat and I feel that XP is an unnecessary meta-game construct that just adds unnecessary overhead while serving no real purpose.