D&D (2024) Would 4 spell lists work in D&D (maybe 6e)?

[TwoSix]

No. Not because I don't think it's a great idea (I really like it!), but if I already have it in PF2, why would I need to see it again in 6e? It's not an evolutionary idea, it's simply one way to organize and present spells among many.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I like the idea on the surface, what little has been said about it. As jgsugden said, kinda hard to make an informed opinion.

One thought that occurs immediately is that the system may benefit from moving some spells off the core-4 spell lists and directly onto classes. Like all warlocks get e-blast and hex, all rangers get hunter's mark. Basically, each magic using class has an expanded spell list exclusive to them, but it's only a small handful of spells, similar in scope to the existing Domain/Circle/Oath spells for archetypes.

I think Paizo said they were going to do something like that. I tend to zone out when anyone mentions spell points, but I think class-specific magic was going to be on a point system, while magic from the lists would be spell slots.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If they were going to do it, I would probably base it on the idea that magic comes from different planes: so primal (material), transitory (feywild, shadowfell, ethereal), elemental, spiritual (outer planes), and mental (astral, far realm) lists. It seems like that could be a good set up for subclasses--every caster class gets a main list and their subclasses determine the secondary list.

Druid: primary is primal, subclasses for transitory (like those fey) and elemental

Cleric: primary is spiritual, nature gets primal, trickery gets transitory, community gets mental, dwarves get elemental

etc.

 

[steeldragons]

I divided magics in my homebrew world/system into 4 (base) categories. It works pretty well.

Mine are not as broadly titled/spanning as teh PF2 categories. It seems these would be significantly more useful and easily combined for various classes.

"Material & Vital," for instance, seems like they would probably give you a decent Necromancer. "Spiritual & Material" could give you a workable Shaman or potentially some flavor of Witch. etc...

My own adheres more to D&D traditions and are simply carved up into: Divine, Nature/Natural, Arcane, and Illusion [which is still/a subset of Arcane magic).
So you can easily see how things work out:
Cleric = Divine - protections, divinations, healings, some (both material and spiritual) travel/movement, some effecting/changing the material world.

Druid = Nature - anything to do with plants, animals, the weather & cardinal elements, some protections, some divinations, some healing, some spiritual/otherworldly connections (traveling to, conjuring from, etc...)

Mage["wizard"] = Arcane - all the usual suspects, effecting/altering the existing material world, effecting/altering the mind, generating/controlling/and/or undoing energies, some travel/movement

Illusionist = Illusion - effecting/altering the mind and perceptions, light/color/shadow/darkness generation/control/undoing, some energy generation/control, some conjurations. Roughly 1/2 the spell list can be found on [full] Arcane list and the other 1/2 are specific to the archetype.

Paladin = limited Divine
Ranger = limited Nature
Bard = limited choose between Nature & Illusion

Witch =choose between Nature & Illusion (class features allow limited spell selection from other lists)

This, of course, ignores (in the "Base" of my homebrew game) other specialist wizards. Given the precedent set by "Illusion[arcane]" magic, Necromancers would need a "Necromancy" spell list consisting of roughly 1/2 things from the Arcane list and 1/2 specific necromantic-themed /necrotic spell effects, Conjurers would need a "Conjuration" spell list, et al.

So it does make things a bit "neater" to be able to categorize things in distinct segments. Perhaps a bit more symmetrical (at first), easier (I feel) for players to wrap their heads around..."What spells am I choosing?"<looks at pages and pages and pages of lists and alphabetized spell descriptions in dismay>"This list here. These are the spells you can choose."

I mean, Pathfinder being Pathfinder, I fully expect that if they begin the new edition with these 4, you'll have 20 magic categories by the end of the following year and be right back, essentially, to where you've started. That being the case, I would advocate to just keep the individual class lists they use now. Draw from whatever "Type" of magic you need, if there's a spell that's thematic to the class/archetype, then just put it on the class list.

 

[Satyrn]

If they were going to do it, I would probably base it on the idea that magic comes from different planes: so primal (material), transitory (feywild, shadowfell, ethereal), elemental, spiritual (outer planes), and mental (astral, far realm) lists. It seems like that could be a good set up for subclasses--every caster class gets a main list and their subclasses determine the secondary list.

Druid: primary is primal, subclasses for transitory (like those fey) and elemental

Cleric: primary is spiritual, nature gets primal, trickery gets transitory, community gets mental, dwarves get elemental

etc.

I like this. Very flavorful!

I might prefer it if each plane got it's own list. Shadowfell magic could easily be separate from Feywild magic, although giving each outer plane a distinct list might be a hassle (although they would make a neat replacement for domain spells).

Ooh, and on top of that, the "basic" spell list could be the Weave.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I like this. Very flavorful!

I might prefer it if each plane got it's own list. Shadowfell magic could easily be separate from Feywild magic, although giving each outer plane a distinct list might be a hassle (although they would make a neat replacement for domain spells).

Ooh, and on top of that, the "basic" spell list could be the Weave.

That reminds me of magic in the Malazan books, where there were a bunch of things that any sufficiently-powerful magic user could do no matter which warren they tapped.

I would love each plane getting its own spell list, but 17 outer planes might be a bit much (as would all the paraelemental planes). Maybe limiting it to Planes of Law, Planes of Chaos, Planes of Good, Planes of Evil, and maybe neutrality (and the elemental chaos for the paraelemental planes) would be a good starting point. If a full caster could grab two lists of spells, I could see the devil-loving LE type getting Planes of Evil and Planes of Law....

 

[the Jester]

Here's the thing- this doesn't sound like it would actually improve the game in any way. So, no, thank you.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Dragon Warriors from the 80s had a nice thematic setup for Elementalists which could be adapted to be schools of magic:

 

[gyor]

If D&D did lists it would do its own, not based on Pathfinder 2e's.

Tie it to power source like in 4e and make it 6 lists. Like Arcane, Divine, Psionic, Primal, Shadow, Elemental.

Wizards get Arcane, but schools like evocation might grant access to Elemental, and Illusion Shadow, Enchantment Psionic, while other Schools like Abjuration offer something different.

Just a brain storm, because D&D 6e might be influenced by Pathfinder 2e (heck so might 5e still), but it would just copy paste Pathfinder 2e's 4 spells lists including the names.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Having a bunch of spell lists and each class having access to just a couple of them reminds me of Rolemaster, except that system had a ton of spell lists to choose from.

As for spells broken down into lists, I am fine with the two we have: Arcane and Divine. Or Internal and External. Internal for all the magic powered by the caster and External for all the casters who get their power from another source.