D&D 5E Disintegrate vs Forcecage

[robus]

So my Demon Lord (Yeenoghu) is in a bit of a pickle, as he's trapped inside a Forcecage. My feeling is that he should be able to Disintegrate the Forcecage (as disintegrate specifically works on structures of magical force). And yet the books are unclear as to what their interaction would be.

I've got a bit of time to figure it out fortunately but I thought I'd appeal to the collective wisdom here.

Yeenoghu does have a bunch of gnoll allies that might be able to overwhelm the PCs and (on pain of death) force them to release Yeenoghu from the cage, but it would be preferable for him to be able to free himself.

So what happens when he tries to Disintegrate the Forcecage?

 

[the Jester]

The forcecage disintegrates. What is it that you think puts this in question?

 

[Oofta]

Appealing to collective wisdom is always a dangerous thing, but I'll share my ruling.

Force Cage specifically states that a Dispel Magic does nothing, but does not mention disintegrate. Since it does not give a specific override for disintegrate, I would rule that a 10-foot-cube portion of the cage would disappear like any other creation of force.

 

[jaelis]

I agree. Disintegrate says it destroys creations of magical force. Forcecage is a creation of magical force, and it has no specific exception granting immunity to disintegrate.

 

[Dausuul]

From disintegrate:

The target can be a creature, an object, or a creation of magical force, such as the wall created by wall of force. ... This spell automatically disintegrates a Large or smaller nonmagical object or a creation of magical force. If the target is a Huge or larger object or creation of force, this spell disintegrates a 10-foot-cube portion of it.

From forcecage:

An immobile, invisible, cube-shaped prison composed of magical force springs into existence around an area you choose within range.

What part of this is unclear? Disintegrate says it can target creations of magical force and spells out what happens when used this way. Forcecage says it creates a prison of magical force. So disintegrate can target forcecage, and it works exactly as described: It takes out the entire forcecage if it's Large or smaller (i.e., the "box" version), or takes a 10-foot cubical bite out of the forcecage if it's Huge or larger (the "cage" version).

Either way, Yeenoghu can indeed blast his way out.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Why does Yeenoghu need to blast his way out. Can't he just teleport out. It will require a Cha save, but Yeenoghu has a really high one.

While Yeenoghu has access to the actual teleport spell. I gave all Demon Lords access to a short range teleport as an action to prevent tactics like this. (Though only Graz'zt can use it as a legendary action.) Even if you don't give Yeenoghu this he still has a 1/day teleport he can use to escape and if by chance he does fail the save he has legendary resistance.

 

[robus]

Thanks everyone - I guess the point of confusion arose because Disintegrate is a 6th level spell and Forcecage is 7th level, so it seemed unlikely that it would be able to take out a higher power spell.

I'll also admit to having had a couple of cocktails before reading the fine print I should have rechecked this morning but I appreciate the consensus!

And my players are going to get a surprise when we reconvene!

 

[robus]

Why does Yeenoghu need to blast his way out. Can't he just teleport out. It will require a Cha save, but Yeenoghu has a really high one.

While Yeenoghu has access to the actual teleport spell. I gave all Demon Lords access to a short range teleport as an action to prevent tactics like this. (Though only Graz'zt can use it as a legendary action.) Even if you don't give Yeenoghu this he still has a 1/day teleport he can use to escape and if by chance he does fail the save he has legendary resistance.

I should have specified that I'm using [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION]'s beefed 5e monsters. His version of Yeenoghu has Disintegrate instead of Teleport.

But you're right that some limited teleport would be a good addition for Demon Lords.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Edit oh Odd. That kind of seems ill fitting honestly. Though it's probbably cause I prefer Yeenoghu's actual stats to Daves version. (As even level 20 PC's stand no chance against Daves version.)

 

[robus]

Edit oh Odd. That kind of seems ill fitting honestly. Though it's probbably cause I prefer Yeenoghu's actual stats to Daves version. (As even level 20 PC's stand no chance against Daves version.)

Well we'll see how it goes. My player's characters seem to be able to dish out a lot on their turns (they work well as a team), so unless the monster has some staying power it can all go their way quite quickly. The Demon Lord stats in the OotA appendix seem quite low.