Shield master on twitter

[guachi]

In my games, I've seen the damage reduction part used once in three years and the dex save bonus used once (by my PC. Sadly, I still failed the save). If it came up more often it'd be fine. But, think about it, you could have spent the ASI raising your Dex instead and get +1 on all Dex saves all the time for everything instead of +2 once in awhile.

 

[lkj]

In my games, I've seen the damage reduction part used once in three years and the dex save bonus used once (by my PC. Sadly, I still failed the save). If it came up more often it'd be fine. But, think about it, you could have spent the ASI raising your Dex instead and get +1 on all Dex saves all the time for everything instead of +2 once in awhile.

I guess we just have a lot more fireballs and dragon breath and the like in our particular campaign. Has happened enough that that has become the main feature of shield master for him. Just seems like there are a lot of spells and effects that have a Dex save for half.

But yeah, obviously, if it doesn't happen much in your game, then less useful.

AD

-- Edit: Though it's worth pointing out that you get the bonus to the Dex save any time you are specifically targetted (and only you) and then the 'no damage' thing whenever it's a save for half. So should be happening on a fair number of Dex saves

 

[Ansel Darach]

His clarification doesn't work the way he thinks it works, taking the attack action will lock what your action is into place, but taking the "attack action" is not and has nothing to do with making an "attack", hence you can take the attack action then use a bonus action for shield master for that knockdown chance following up with your normal attacks after.

At least until they rule you can't move between attacks anymore, oh and that you must immediately make attacks against something within range upon taking the attack action etc etc, seems they don't know how the game they wrote the rules for works sometimes lol.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Shield master is cheese because of the timing of a chance to knock someone (with size limitations) prone but using Sharp Shooter to attack a target at maximum range behind 3/4 cover without penalty isn’t?

I guess JC likes himself some ranged characters.

thst isn’t cheese by any definition, it’s just the literal point of Sharpshooter.

People are upset because characters they made that make extensive use of the feat now can't use it anymore. Imagine if your Barbarian could no longer use Reckless Attack or cantrips didn't scale damage with character level, or GWM could no longer use the -5/+10 part of the feat or if Cunning Action now had to be taken after your Attack Action.

Entire characters would be wrecked. Things people did every turn - and enjoyed doing - are now things people can no longer do. I actually had a Shield Master using PC and he was really fun! There's no reason whatsoever to take the feat now. The PC wouldn't even be the same character.

That's why people are upset. It's a core part of basically any PC that takes the feat.

if a mild change to a feat makes them “not th same character”, that isn’t a rules problem, it’s a player problem.

I can totally see why losing the shove-attack option on the same round would be a bummer. But essentially getting the 'no damage' part of the Rogue's Evasion ability is pretty big. It has saved the fighter in our group multiple times. And getting a shield bonus to Dex Saves is also pretty sweet.

In other words-- I understand that if you built a character concept around the shove why it would be disappointing. But I don't agree that the Shield Master isn't very useful without it.

AD

yah it’s a strong feat regardless.

 

[CapnZapp]

Oh no!

Now we've got two campaigns to re-play!

 

[5ekyu]

His clarification doesn't work the way he thinks it works, taking the attack action will lock what your action is into place, but taking the "attack action" is not and has nothing to do with making an "attack", hence you can take the attack action then use a bonus action for shield master for that knockdown chance following up with your normal attacks after.

At least until they rule you can't move between attacks anymore, oh and that you must immediately make attacks against something within range upon taking the attack action etc etc, seems they don't know how the game they wrote the rules for works sometimes lol.

Sorry, but there is nothing not working the wzy he wants or how they think it plays in your examples.

The fact that you can move between attacks says nothing about when you can bonus attack off an attack action.
They have very specific rules allowing you to move between the attacks, before, after etc right there is the rulebooks.

That specific defined inter-relation says nothing about bonus actions that are dependent on attack actions.

 

[Arial Black]

So my 4th level fighter gets the Shield Master feat. Now I can shield bash, but ONLY if I execute my one attack first.

Okay, so attacking ONCE is the thing that allows me to shield bash, right?

Now I get to 5th level and gain Extra Attack.

Why does one attack no longer allow me to shield bash? Why does it now take two attacks? I'm supposed to be better than I was a level ago, not worse!

What's going on?

 

[5ekyu]

So my 4th level fighter gets the Shield Master feat. Now I can shield bash, but ONLY if I execute my one attack first.

Okay, so attacking ONCE is the thing that allows me to shield bash, right?

Now I get to 5th level and gain Extra Attack.

Why does one attack no longer allow me to shield bash? Why does it now take two attacks? I'm supposed to be better than I was a level ago, not worse!

What's going on?

You can still take one attack then bash. Nothing has changed there.

But at fifth you gained the new option to take two attacks and bash.

So, it doesnt "take two attacks" just the same old one... But... You can take two before bashing if you want.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I really don´t know why you are so angry... he already changed a ruling about bark skin.

about shield master: yes, it is a nerf, but they already stated that the feat was badly designed, because you now have a standard routine that forces the enemy to contest every single round. It was never meant to be used that way. Now, you have the option of shoving after your attack. That will allow you to retreat, shove the enemy into you own friends, shoving them prone if another melee combatant takes its turn after you, and so on.
I´d say there is more bad design in that feat: it is strange that the one bonus depends on the fact that only you are targeted by a spell... why not giving that bonus all the time. Why is it important that you are the sole target of the enemy fireball...?

 

[cbwjm]

I really don´t know why you are so angry... he already changed a ruling about bark skin.

about shield master: yes, it is a nerf, but they already stated that the feat was badly designed, because you now have a standard routine that forces the enemy to contest every single round. It was never meant to be used that way. Now, you have the option of shoving after your attack. That will allow you to retreat, shove the enemy into you own friends, shoving them prone if another melee combatant takes its turn after you, and so on.
I´d say there is more bad design in that feat: it is strange that the one bonus depends on the fact that only you are targeted by a spell... why not giving that bonus all the time. Why is it important that you are the sole target of the enemy fireball...?

What was the ruling about barkskin? Last I heard was that your AC is is set to a minimum of 16 or something though I just treat it as heavy armour and allow a shield bonus if you are using one.