D&D 5E MTOF: Devil's Advocates --- The Case for Lawful Evil

[JPL]

MTOF does some great stuff explaining the culture, psychology, and motivations of various races. Particularly impressive: devils as tyrants versus demons as egotists. I love the bit about how devils feel like they don't get the credit they deserve for holding back the demons and preventing the entire multiverse from collapsing into chaos.

I think this would make a solid angle for a Lawful Neutral / Lawful Evil infernal pact warlock PC . . . maybe a self-righteous bastard a la Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men." He sees himself as the Man on the Wall, keeping chaos at bay, and he doesn't particularly care if you think he's a bad guy.

 

[delericho]

I think this would make a solid angle for a Lawful Neutral / Lawful Evil infernal pact warlock PC . . . maybe a self-righteous bastard a la Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men." He sees himself as the Man on the Wall, keeping chaos at bay, and he doesn't particularly care if you think he's a bad guy.

I don't use alignment these days (since the start of 4e, really), but that would indeed make for a cool PC concept.

 

[Ancalagon]

Doing evil to prevent a greater evil is a good way to corrupt the righteous...

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I agree, it’s a great take on the devils. LE is one of my favorite alignments to play (really, any lawful alignment is). Rampant evil and chaos doesn’t appeal to me, but give me a code of honor with those darker motivations, and I’m all kinds of happy to craft a character around that.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

My personal take, which was partly inspired by a desire to justify the concept of maintaining a Balance between Good and Evil, is that "Good" and "Evil" are abstractions of the forces of Positive and Negative Energy.

Good is concerned with protecting life and promoting the desire to live. Evil does not value life and promotes the desire to bring life to an end.

In my personal cosmology it is believed that committing "Good" acts causes the Multiverse to drift closer to the Positive Energy Plane, and "Evil" acts cause it to drift closer to the Negative Energy Plane. The devils' goal, the reason they need souls, is to collect the Positive Energy contained within them while also committing acts that bring the Multiverse's inhabitants closer to annihilation by the Negative Energy Plane. The devils can then use the collected Positive Energy to protect themselves and transform the Hells into a paradise while everything they oppose is destroyed, leaving them free to reshape what's left of the Multiverse to their own ends. The forces of "Good" have a similar goal, except that they want to use the Positive Energy Plane's influence instead and rely on a divine fortress composed of belief to protect them while the forces of Evil are purged.

I feel this gives philosophies of intentional Neutrality more of a reason to exist. "Good" and "Evil" forces believe in an inevitable apocalypse that they want to be on the right side of, whereas Neutrality wants to try and maintain the status quo.

 

[Ogre Mage]

MTOF does some great stuff explaining the culture, psychology, and motivations of various races. Particularly impressive: devils as tyrants versus demons as egotists. I love the bit about how devils feel like they don't get the credit they deserve for holding back the demons and preventing the entire multiverse from collapsing into chaos.

I think this would make a solid angle for a Lawful Neutral / Lawful Evil infernal pact warlock PC . . . maybe a self-righteous bastard a la Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men." He sees himself as the Man on the Wall, keeping chaos at bay, and he doesn't particularly care if you think he's a bad guy.

While Asmodeous is the obvious choice for a patron in this vein, I think Zariel, Lord of the First, would work well. She is front line of defense in the Blood War and would be interested in warlocks who want to join it.

 

[Ancalagon]

My personal take, which was partly inspired by a desire to justify the concept of maintaining a Balance between Good and Evil, is that "Good" and "Evil" are abstractions of the forces of Positive and Negative Energy.

Good is concerned with protecting life and promoting the desire to live. Evil does not value life and promotes the desire to bring life to an end.

In my personal cosmology it is believed that committing "Good" acts causes the Multiverse to drift closer to the Positive Energy Plane, and "Evil" acts cause it to drift closer to the Negative Energy Plane. The devils' goal, the reason they need souls, is to collect the Positive Energy contained within them while also committing acts that bring the Multiverse's inhabitants closer to annihilation by the Negative Energy Plane. The devils can then use the collected Positive Energy to protect themselves and transform the Hells into a paradise while everything they oppose is destroyed, leaving them free to reshape what's left of the Multiverse to their own ends. The forces of "Good" have a similar goal, except that they want to use the Positive Energy Plane's influence instead and rely on a divine fortress composed of belief to protect them while the forces of Evil are purged.

I feel this gives philosophies of intentional Neutrality more of a reason to exist. "Good" and "Evil" forces believe in an inevitable apocalypse that they want to be on the right side of, whereas Neutrality wants to try and maintain the status quo.

Spoken like a true neutral!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE

 

[mrpopstar]

My personal take, which was partly inspired by a desire to justify the concept of maintaining a Balance between Good and Evil, is that "Good" and "Evil" are abstractions of the forces of Positive and Negative Energy.

Good is concerned with protecting life and promoting the desire to live. Evil does not value life and promotes the desire to bring life to an end.

In my personal cosmology it is believed that committing "Good" acts causes the Multiverse to drift closer to the Positive Energy Plane, and "Evil" acts cause it to drift closer to the Negative Energy Plane. The devils' goal, the reason they need souls, is to collect the Positive Energy contained within them while also committing acts that bring the Multiverse's inhabitants closer to annihilation by the Negative Energy Plane. The devils can then use the collected Positive Energy to protect themselves and transform the Hells into a paradise while everything they oppose is destroyed, leaving them free to reshape what's left of the Multiverse to their own ends. The forces of "Good" have a similar goal, except that they want to use the Positive Energy Plane's influence instead and rely on a divine fortress composed of belief to protect them while the forces of Evil are purged.

I feel this gives philosophies of intentional Neutrality more of a reason to exist. "Good" and "Evil" forces believe in an inevitable apocalypse that they want to be on the right side of, whereas Neutrality wants to try and maintain the status quo.

I'm big on the good/light/truth/love/hope/innocence/creation/life vs evil/darkness/deception/hate/despair/corruption/destruction/death dichotomy, myself. Those forces warring over the prime material makes for great stories.

 

[Eltab]

Doing evil to prevent a greater evil is a good way to corrupt the righteous...

Even more effective: if you can persuade the soon-to-fall soul that he is fighting Evil masquerading behind a good. (Blame your personal rival/foe for manipulating / bewitching the intended target.) This preserves your dupe's value to you, because in the future you can persuade him to attack somebody else.

 

[Eltab]

Rampant evil and chaos doesn’t appeal to me

Me either. Sure it sounds like fun to be able to KILL ALL; TAKE STUFF with no conscience or concern for anybody else (except the rest of the group) - for a while. There is no overall goal or purpose to it. If you are successful enough, you become the target of meddling powerful Heroes who want you dead. Or worse - they want to torment you for the rest of your natural life, trying to persuade you to repent and convert into something against your essential nature: another hero!