Dark Sun

[Zardnaar]

I could see Preservation and Defilement being Arcane Traditions in 5e.

Doesn't really work as you can change traditions. Also you can have a defiler illusionist or preserver illusionist.

Also some seem to want to add new arcane classes to Athas so they may need to be able to defile. Personally I don't believe in adding new arcane classes to Athas, Sorcerer at a stretch maybe.

 

[Delazar78]

This is how we handle defiling in our DS5 campaign



https://darksun01.blogspot.com/

 

[Charlaquin]

Doesn't really work as you can change traditions. Also you can have a defiler illusionist or preserver illusionist.

Well a preserver illusionist would just be a preservation tradition wizard who chooses a lot of illusion spells. But yes, this model wouldn’t allow for characters who start as defilers and become preservers or vice/versa, at least not without some special rule allowing it in exception to how subclasses normally work. I could still see WotC doing it that way.

Also some seem to want to add new arcane classes to Athas so they may need to be able to defile. Personally I don't believe in adding new arcane classes to Athas, Sorcerer at a stretch maybe.

I absolutely do not see WotC removing any classes from 5e Dark Sun. They’d add the Psion I’m sure, but that’s the only change I think they’d make to the class lineup. Now, that might mean preservation and defililing don’t work as Arcane Traditions, but I could also see WotC deciding that those practices are specific to wizards.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well a preserver illusionist would just be a preservation tradition wizard who chooses a lot of illusion spells. But yes, this model wouldn’t allow for characters who start as defilers and become preservers or vice/versa, at least not without some special rule allowing it in exception to how subclasses normally work. I could still see WotC doing it that way.


I absolutely do not see WotC removing any classes from 5e Dark Sun. They’d add the Psion I’m sure, but that’s the only change I think they’d make to the class lineup. Now, that might mean preservation and defililing don’t work as Arcane Traditions, but I could also see WotC deciding that those practices are specific to wizards.

There are only 4 core races in 5E.

A big part of Athas is the duality between the preserver and defiler wizards and plants being the source of arcane magic. The warlock doesn't really fit due to the pact magic thing, arcane bards don't exist on Athas either, and only the wild sorcerer makes much sense as well. Moon Druids would also be a bit meh due to a good chunk of the critter they can turn into not existing.

They shoehorned stuff into the 4E setting, the conversion was meh on multiple levels. There is room for new classes on Athas IMHO but I odn't think they shoul muck up a good chunk of the lore to fit them in (Paladins, Warlocks, most Sorcerer subclasses/Sorcerer itself, arcane bards).

In 4E terms most classes tied to the arcane power source should not exist on Athas or if they do NPC only IMHO.

Same thing with the races. Gnomes and Half Orcs should be right out, Dragonborn, Drow would be other exclusions.

 

[grimslade]

Dragonborn actually could fit in Darksun. They need to be refluffed to fit Athas much like elves and halflings were. Scalykind who are a younger race who were born at the apotheosis of The Dragon? Sounds good to me. Half-orcs are replaced by Muls. Gnomes are I agree superfluous, but a case could be made for tinker/rock gnomes who try to use gear tech to ply the silt sea? Super rare and not for everyone , so maybe not.

 

[grimslade]

Classes will be hard for Dark Sun. I think Warlock works well for a defiler type or the city state Templars. I also could see vestige deities from before the apotheosis as being patrons, gives a whole dark ancients feel. Paladins are hard. They would need to be reskinned a lot to fit.
I think the path forward for DarkSun 5e is to expand defiler/ preserver beyond just a ‘wizard’ thing and make it for all arcane and divine/elemental classes. A defiler druid and a preserver druid would be more than twisted reflections, they would be akin to a different class. There can be whisper bards and defiler lore bards combing the deserts for ancient knowledge of the early Sorcerer Kings.
I loved Dark Sun 2e but it was great because subverted a lot of the limitations of 2e. Most of those limitations are not present in 5e, so the twist for 5e Athas has to be different or else it is just nostalgia. Defiling was a way to hack slow wizard xp progression. No paladins was because a shining example of lawful goodness for the gods did not fit a dying godless world. A sect of Oath bound warriors drawing power from that bond? That might fit. The problem is making sure we don’t water down Athas with all a regular D&D campaign would offer.

 

[Charlaquin]

There are only 4 core races in 5E.

I didn’t say anything about core classes.

T A big part of Athas is the duality between the preserver and defiler wizards and plants being the source of arcane magic. The warlock doesn't really fit due to the pact magic thing, arcane bards don't exist on Athas either, and only the wild sorcerer makes much sense as well. Moon Druids would also be a bit meh due to a good chunk of the critter they can turn into not existing.

They shoehorned stuff into the 4E setting, the conversion was meh on multiple levels. There is room for new classes on Athas IMHO but I odn't think they shoul muck up a good chunk of the lore to fit them in (Paladins, Warlocks, most Sorcerer subclasses/Sorcerer itself, arcane bards).

In 4E terms most classes tied to the arcane power source should not exist on Athas or if they do NPC only IMHO.

Same thing with the races. Gnomes and Half Orcs should be right out, Dragonborn, Drow would be other exclusions.

I didn’t say it would be a good idea, just that it’s what I see WotC doing.

 

[Eltab]

Moon Druids would also be a bit meh due to a good chunk of the critter they can turn into not existing.

Permit me to introduce you to the Dark Sun Creature Catalogue.
Athas druids turn into Athas critters. Low-level Druid "I wild shape into a Baazrag" DM "Wait, a what?"
But you are still right that the selection of creatures they can turn into is NOT going to be as lush and verdant - excuse me, as long a list - as a world with a healthy ecology, like Oerth.

 

[Zardnaar]

Permit me to introduce you to the Dark Sun Creature Catalogue.
Athas druids turn into Athas critters. Low-level Druid "I wild shape into a Baazrag" DM "Wait, a what?"
But you are still right that the selection of creatures they can turn into is NOT going to be as lush and verdant - excuse me, as long a list - as a world with a healthy ecology, like Oerth.

A lot of the Athas critter won't be beasts due to psionic. They will be like giant vultures which druids can't turn into. The Athas bears, great cats etc equivalents will be off limits. No turning into Klaar, Kirre etc.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If psionics comes naturally to a life form, I see no reason to preclude it being a Beast. An organism does not need to be sentient to use psionics.