Dark Sun

[Dispater]

I could see Preservation and Defilement being Arcane Traditions in 5e.

I don't think so. It's a way of collecting energy to fuel your spells, and preservers need to be able to defile. It needs a different ruleset for casting magic than what exists in 5e if it is to be portrayed accurately.

 

[Dispater]

In my opinion. Dark Sun is a setting that requires its own classes. All the PHB ones are geared towards high fantasy, particularly where magic use comes. So many magic-using subclasses.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Have Defilement the default for any use of arcane magic. Then have Preserving learnable as a feat.

 

[Zardnaar]

If psionics comes naturally to a life form, I see no reason to preclude it being a Beast. An organism does not need to be sentient to use psionics.

I don't really see them making psionic using critters as mundane beasts. Besides do we really want Moon Druids wildshaping into psionic critters?

There is a reason the moon Druid is not on my DS players guide as an allowable class, they will either suck or its more work for me to go and create critters for them to wildshape into.

Wildshape was not such a thing in 2E so I went with the land Druids as the Athas Druid. I think when you try and fit everything in the PHB into Athas you start watering down the concept.

Its not because ol Z is some sort of hard core grognard (at home its basically anything goes) but when running a themed game I think the theme is more important than the PHB and DS is a themed campaign setting IMHO.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Since a PC druid in Dark Sun should have psionic abilities of their own, you could just rule that wildshape (and other shapeshifting abilities) retain inherent psionics, rather than acquiring those of the form.

I agree that Druid of the Moon doesn't really fit the setting though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Since a PC druid in Dark Sun should have psionic abilities of their own, you could just rule that wildshape (and other shapeshifting abilities) retain inherent psionics, rather than acquiring those of the form.

I agree that Druid of the Moon doesn't really fit the setting though.

Yeah I am going with a less is more thing for the setting. Only around half or a bit less of the PHB archetypes make it in. If Psionicscame out tomorrow I could play and I have a DS setting set 1000 years after the Prism Pentad which basically reverse the events of the Prism Pentad and changes the focus towards fixing the world (my "nice" DS campaign).

My left over 3.5 DS notes came in handy. I thik I have run DS 3 times since it "died", 2E the 3.5 Dungeon/Dragon ones (terrible) and tweaked Athas.org rules for 3.5.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Have Defilement the default for any use of arcane magic. Then have Preserving learnable as a feat.

I actually like this idea a lot. It does a good job of preserving the idea of defiling being the "quick and easy" path and preservation needing sacrifice and dedication.

It also helps cement humans as the core of preservation magic, since it comes easier to them.

A possible problem is the ability to switch between the two; in this model, a preserver who slips and begins defiling loses access to a feat they already took. I don't think there is precedent for that in 5e. Doesn't make it a bad idea or unworkable, but needs some thought.

 

[Eltab]

A possible problem is the ability to switch between the two; in this model, a preserver who slips and begins defiling loses access to a feat they already took. I don't think there is precedent for that in 5e. Doesn't make it a bad idea or unworkable, but needs some thought.

The DM is going to have more record-keeping. For each spell (or each combat), was it preserve-cast or defile-cast? Who witnessed it? Did they survive the combat? Would word get out?

Unless you have A Very Powerful Protector, defile-casting gets you the opportunity to be the target of an angry mob (who figure that dying killing you is better than dying to power your spells, but they are going to die regardless, therefore you can't threaten to kill them unless they leave you alone).

 

[cbwjm]

I actually like this idea a lot. It does a good job of preserving the idea of defiling being the "quick and easy" path and preservation needing sacrifice and dedication.

It also helps cement humans as the core of preservation magic, since it comes easier to them.

A possible problem is the ability to switch between the two; in this model, a preserver who slips and begins defiling loses access to a feat they already took. I don't think there is precedent for that in 5e. Doesn't make it a bad idea or unworkable, but needs some thought.

One reason I don't like having defiling as the default requiring a feat for preserving is that it means you have to take variant human to be a preserver right from level one, no one else can choose to be a preserver from the beginning. That right there makes it a bad idea to me. I'd much rather that choosing to use preserving of defiling magic be just part of the setting, no feats required, although there could be feats for each that enhance one or the other.

 

[hastur_nz]

I ran Dark Sun once (owned some 2e material, but never used it). From memory, I think I ran it during the 5e playtest days or maybe with 3.5, I certainly recall using the 4e stuff as well as 2e and 3.x for inspiration.

I'm pretty much aligned with Eltab - when I ran it, no-one wanted to be a Defiler, it wasn't even a question. For me, I think of it as an option for NPC's, the bad guys; PC's should be assumed to be Preservers so it's not really an issue. Tempting players with the dark side feels very old-school to me, something AD&D certainly played around with in 1e and 2e probably from watching the 2nd and 3rd star wars movies, but I don't think it really worked out in real life play for D&D - if you tempt players with a better option if they become evil, well good luck running your evil back-stabbing game (unless that's specifically what everyone signed up for).