D&D 5E Troubleshooting slow narrative? (ToA, spoilers)

[Quickleaf]

One of my players gave me valuable critique recently: After only 10 sessions he is feeling burned out on our Tomb of Annihilation game because the rate of narrative development is too slow. Specifically, he mentioned the group has only been getting vague clues and still lacks a plan of attack/strategy for the BIG problem (how to stop the Death Curse). Now, he *is* an especially mission-driven player, but in reflection I agree with him: there hasn’t been enough big revelation, there have been too many zombies and not enough meaningful clues...

I started the 3rd level PCs (now 4th, about to hit 5th) with a talking amnesiac “lich’s skull” which mentioned being killed by adventurers, but instead of going to his phylactery as he should have, he ended up in a pillar of blue light with a hag cackling about “the Soulmonger” and demanding the lich make a deal for his freedom...then his consciousness zoomed over a jungle full of dinosaurs to his skull (which the PCs has found “off camera” as part of their adventuring party backstory).

They know “the Devourer” (first of the necromancers) is likely behind the Death Curse.

Just recently they’ve learned that the Death Curse likely originated in Omu, but have yet to discover where Omu is.

They’re currently in Mezro, having followed the trail of the Company of the Yellow Banner (who I’ve reinterpreted as being hired by Syndra Silvane). I’ve adapted material from DMs Guild product Ruins of Mezro to flesh out Mezro.

Next session I want them to get a better sense of direction, more clarity in their mission. What is a good way of going about doing that?

I’ve been contemplating introducing a solo Dragonbait as a survivor of a world ravaged by “the Devourer”, having witnessed soul engines used to make currency out of the captive life force of his fellow saurials. But I’m not sure that’s enough of a reveal to give them a stronger direction, and further it would require ignoring Dragonbait’s muteness (which seems a cornerstone of his character). Maybe I can make him cursed by one of the Sewn sisters with muteness which PCs can break in a couple ways?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's an issue with open world adventures. If' I ever run ToA I will probably skip the opening chapters and go straight to the meat, without the hexploration. I don't think it's a sin to lead the players by the nose and drop a map to Omu in thier path if they aren't enjoying the wandering.

 

[Quartz]

If they want to get to the meat of the story, why not oblige them? Simply handwave it and bump the PCs the requisite number of levels and they can head to Omu.

I really didn't like ToA as a campaign; indeed in the original ToA thread I think I suggested removing the Yuan-ti from Omu.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The problem is, the (apparent) urgency of the Death Curse hook conflicts with the theme of exploring a new continent. So, if you want to do an open world exploration it's better to drop the Death Curse (or have it start much later); or, if you want to focus on the Death Curse, skip ahead to near the end.

 

[Nagol]

Are there available external information sources the players can utilize? A temple with a cleric high enough to cast Commune, a Wizard with Contact Other Plane, a friendly organization that knows more, a location reputed to reveal existential secrets, a sage who has the time to answer questions for a fee, or survivors of a previous expedition into the area?

If there are, ask the next complainer why they aren't pursuing answers if they really want them. If there aren't, add some.

 

[ArwensDaughter]

Yeah, I found as I ran it that there weren’t enough clues, and the sandbox feel meant it was easy to miss the ones that were there. I started planting clues: an adventurers diary with notes about the clues from Port N my party missed, an NPC cleric who had been having visions about the great danger, etc. I also started taking jungle travel in 5 day chunks, narrating/hand waving a lot of the encounters. They are in Omu now and it’s going faster.

 

[Quickleaf]

That's an issue with open world adventures. If' I ever run ToA I will probably skip the opening chapters and go straight to the meat, without the hexploration. I don't think it's a sin to lead the players by the nose and drop a map to Omu in thier path if they aren't enjoying the wandering.

If they want to get to the meat of the story, why not oblige them? Simply handwave it and bump the PCs the requisite number of levels and they can head to Omu.

Hand-waving / rail-roaring is certainly a possible measure of last resort. Don’t think I’m quite in that desperate of a situation yet. There are other players in the group who would likely react negatively to such a last resort move also.

The problem is, the (apparent) urgency of the Death Curse hook conflicts with the theme of exploring a new continent. So, if you want to do an open world exploration it's better to drop the Death Curse (or have it start much later); or, if you want to focus on the Death Curse, skip ahead to near the end.

What I’ve done is shoot for the “middle path.” My version of Death Curse works slower (-1 max HD per 2 weeks) and involves a timeline of increasing badness/complications over the course of 11 months. So while it’s definitely the big campaign driver, there isn’t an overwhelming urgency discouraging exploration.

Are there available external information sources the players can utilize? A temple with a cleric high enough to cast Commune, a Wizard with Contact Other Plane, a friendly organization that knows more, a location reputed to reveal existential secrets, a sage who has the time to answer questions for a fee, or survivors of a previous expedition into the area?

If there are, ask the next complainer why they aren't pursuing answers if they really want them. If there aren't, add some.

Yes. While they left Port Nyanzaru quickly (where there were readily available sources of external info), there’s been lots of information and lore they’ve uncovered. Syndra Silvane. The lich’s Skull. Their guides. An elven ruin. Mezro’s Library & Wizards College. The clues have been of the “small/vague kind” however. It seems like there is a design flaw in ToA with *how* the clues were constructed...they seem to lack depth... It is hard to put my finger exactly on the problem.

Yeah, I found as I ran it that there weren’t enough clues, and the sandbox feel meant it was easy to miss the ones that were there. I started planting clues: an adventurers diary with notes about the clues from Port N my party missed, an NPC cleric who had been having visions about the great danger, etc. I also started taking jungle travel in 5 day chunks, narrating/hand waving a lot of the encounters. They are in Omu now and it’s going faster.

Yes, that’s exactly what aim noticing as well. The clues are spread too thin, are easy to miss, and lack the depth to make them very clear to players. Moving some of the clues that can be found in Port Nyanzaru to other jungle encounters might work; thanks for the idea!

I’ve already been massaging the random encounters to create a better sense of narrative, both compressing encounters into “eventful days” (whereas uneventful days are given travel montage treatment) & incorporating clues of my own.

Main issue seems to be that hardly anyone (only 3 NPCs) know what is causing the Death Curse or how it might be stopped. PCs breezed out of Port Nyanzaru before I could introduce Grandfather Zitembe. They haven no idea about the Heart of Ubtao, and haven’t yet encountered any NPCs who would know about Valindra Shadowmantle. And they haven’t yet learned about Saja N’baza in Orolunga, so I’m creating a clue in Artus Cimber’s Home in ruins of Mezro pointing to Saja N’baza.

The clues about the Death Curse - it’s cause/origin and how it might be stopped - seem “all or nothing.” There’s no steps to discovery. You either talk to the right NPC or you don’t. Wish I’d recognized that earlier on!

 

[Nagol]

<snip>


Yes. While they left Port Nyanzaru quickly (where there were readily available sources of external info), there’s been lots of information and lore they’ve uncovered. Syndra Silvane. The lich’s Skull. Their guides. An elven ruin. Mezro’s Library & Wizards College. The clues have been of the “small/vague kind” however. It seems like there is a design flaw in ToA with *how* the clues were constructed...they seem to lack depth... It is hard to put my finger exactly on the problem.

I haven't seen the adventure, but a common failing both in published work and homegrown games I've seen is there are clues about what's happening, who's doing it, and why, but they don't contain nudges about how to pursue further information/remedy. They are treated more as setting enhancement than instruments to galvanize the players to action. Finding out someone/something is doing A VERY BAD THING is nice and all, but it's more useful if you also find out who can tell you more, where the someone/something may be, and/or what can be done to mitigate or remedy the situation.

 

[Quickleaf]

I haven't seen the adventure, but a common failing both in published work and homegrown games I've seen is there are clues about what's happening, who's doing it, and why, but they don't contain nudges about how to pursue further information/remedy. They are treated more as setting enhancement than instruments to galvanize the players to action. Finding out someone/something is doing A VERY BAD THING is nice and all, but it's more useful if you also find out who can tell you more, where the someone/something may be, and/or what can be done to mitigate or remedy the situation.

Very well said!

So, in the case that my players overlook the 3 plot hook NPCs (through no fault of their own), I’ll need to construct a chain of clues they can follow/deduce to discover more about the Soulmonger (an artifact absorbing souls of the dead into it). Maybe something to do with the crafting requirements involved in making/locating the Soulmonger? Maybe...

1. Dragonbait (saurial NPC cursed with muteness) tries to explain what he knows with pictograms, but can only convey so much. Upon learning of PCs’ quest, he draws a picture of a “Soul Forge” (necromantic magic item from his home world which was drained of life by Acererak).

2. Magical research / Arcana checks / speaking with Mage NPCs using Dragonbait’s rough sketches reveals there are likely 3 requirements for crafting a device capable of draining souls (i.e. the Soulmonger): this part I’m still figuring out 1) it must be fixed in a sunless place with adamantine struts over a source of energy, (2) nine bound spirits of truly immortal entities, (3) ?

3. (If Dragonbait’s Curse is removed via remove curse, killing/tricking Sewn Sister who cursed him, or retrieving his voice from a magical place) Dragonbait can explain what happened to his world in greater detail, providing a possible timeline, hinting at the “Devourer’s” proclivity for cruel riddles/tests, and his growing hunger for brighter and more powerful souls.

4. Investigating adamantine sources in Chult leads to Hrakhamar, which connects to lair of the red dragon Tzindelor has flown over Omu and knows it’s location. Speaking with dwarves about the adamantine mine will reveal that many were enslaved by an Omuan Queen to mine great quantities of adamantine that were transported to Omu.

5. Investigating entities that can’t truly die will lead to stories of the Nine Trickster Gods of Omu.

6.

 

[robus]

It seems like Mezro should house a significant clue that the source of the curse is in Omu (and perhaps reveal its location relative to Mezro?) Perhaps there's a cool relief map of Omu there with some terrible symbol over the location of Omu? (I'm thinking Indiana Jones style reveal of the location of the Lost Ark?) Or perhaps the gods of Chult give indicate that the sickness permeating Omu has is origin deep under Omu?

Edit: as an aside I found all the secondary plots in ToA to be annoying (when reading through the adventure) there's enough cool stuff going on in Chult without the need for Rings of Winter running around etc etc.