D&D 5E The Illrigger: Why I hate this class and love what it could have been.

I’ve seen it applied to boxers as a title.
I pointed out examples of rogue and barbarian being used as such, but fighter, rogue, or barbarian are not jobs or professions, they are descriptions. A fighter is a knight, a soldier, a guard, or so on. They don't train to be "a fighter" because that isn't a profession, it's a description of how they do their job.

Whereas cleric, paladin, ranger, druid, bard, THOSE are jobs. You train to be them. A paladin is a paladin, and paladin has a meaning in the world that "fighter" does not. Which was my point of illrigger. It doesn't feel like something someone would describe their job as. It feels like a description of how they do their job. Hellknight is a job. Illrigger is a nonsense word to describe a bunch of different jobs that all happen to serve Hell.
 

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I pointed out examples of rogue and barbarian being used as such, but fighter, rogue, or barbarian are not jobs or professions, they are descriptions. A fighter is a knight, a soldier, a guard, or so on. They don't train to be "a fighter" because that isn't a profession, it's a description of how they do their job.

Whereas cleric, paladin, ranger, druid, bard, THOSE are jobs. You train to be them. A paladin is a paladin, and paladin has a meaning in the world that "fighter" does not. Which was my point of illrigger. It doesn't feel like something someone would describe their job as. It feels like a description of how they do their job. Hellknight is a job. Illrigger is a nonsense word to describe a bunch of different jobs that all happen to serve Hell.
I don’t think the original paladins trained as such.

Tolkien used “burglar” as a profession.
 




Ok, I'm trying to find a fun name and niche. And I don't want it to be "dark mc dark dark fighter" in name or in core theme.

Just like in 5e a Paladin can be a Paladin of Vengence or Conquest, by reaiming Paladins at being fueled by a mystical Oath instead of goodness they gave the class more thematic life.

So...

Oath-eater.

This is on the negative connotation side, just like Paladin has positive connotations. But it could be neutral or even good.

I'm thinking that you have Curses and Wards. Curses you tend to put on foes, Wards on yourself and/or allies.

Limit how many Wards you can have up at a time, and on a given creature, and ditto for Curses.

A core mechanic is consuming your Curses and Wards ("eating" them) (they are both kinds of "Oath" magic).

Power source wise, Oath-eaters gain their power by harvesting broken pacts and magical oaths. You can have an oath-eater bounty hunter who hunts fallen paladins and warlocks who betray their patron. You can have a Oath-eater who gained their power because a Paladin fell, or even caused a Paladin to fall. Or one that has hunted an infernal warlocks and killed them, taking the power of their pact for their own.

Being powered by stolen and broken pacts it leans nicely into "bad mc bady bad". And that also explains why the abilities can be a pseudo-hybrid of Paladin and Warlock ones on top of a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue chassy.

The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue split could be like the Book/Chain/Blade Warlock.
Seriously dig the name here. 👍
 

Knave, Varlet, and Blackguard are also not professions!

They're insults!

Correct, which is my point. Fighter, Rogue, Knave, etc aren't names that a person would describe themselves as (unless they're being self-depreciating). Paladin, Druid, or Bard are. I think illrigger fits in the former group, not the latter.
 


I'm not a fan of the Illrigger. But it's mostly because I can see what it -could- have, and maybe should have, been.

1) The Name
Illrigger. What an absolutely terrible name.
Yes for me it began and ended with this. That name. I couldn't even feel right approaching my DM with that name. It SCREAMS "I am a weird third party product of some dude's house ruled game." There are so many names which are the same as something from the history of D&D or similar-enough to it that it gives the sense it's a more legit continuation of the game. Illrigger? Sounds like something that has to do with a part of a boat, and surely has no tone to it that is reminiscent of anything that used to be part of the game.
 

Yes for me it began and ended with this. That name. I couldn't even feel right approaching my DM with that name. It SCREAMS "I am a weird third party product of some dude's house ruled game." There are so many names which are the same as something from the history of D&D or similar-enough to it that it gives the sense it's a more legit continuation of the game. Illrigger? Sounds like something that has to do with a part of a boat, and surely has no tone to it that is reminiscent of anything that used to be part of the game.
At this point I'm absolutely going Blackguard instead of Knave due to it's specific historical connection to the game. Though I might include a note that Blackguards are Knaves and Varlets as well 'cause I think it's amusing!

Just hope people are down with the "Occult Warrior" concept in place of the strictly "anti-paladin" idea.
 

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