D&D 5E The Illrigger: Why I hate this class and love what it could have been.

I think that's actually 2 different problems, which highlight a lot of the ongoing archetypal problems with the classes in general. The Fighter and Rogue suffer from being too generic to actually be a profession or vocation. All soldiers, swashbucklers, knights and even paladins are fighters.

Warlord and Barbarian have the other issue, where a substitution is happening for a more accepted usage (though D&D has and a lot of work to wear down Barbarian to its preferred primary meaning) so no one would use those words to describe themselves, because they communicate something else. It's interesting, because you can imagine words that wouldn't have this problem, I'd probably go with Berserker and Captain (maybe Officer if there's a risk of nautical confusion).
Problematics aside, I included barbarian and warlord because those are exactly "job title" class names. While they can be used as titles (Gord the Rogue, Conan the Barbarian) most people would not willingly use that word to describe what they do. Compared to bard, ranger, paladin, druid, or even cleric and wizard, they are descriptions of the type of character they are, not job titles. Illrigger fits squarely in that category. I just don't see a world where the villain walks into town and people begin to whisper "Look, it's Moarblud the Illrigger!"

It reminds me a little of one of my problems with Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed/Evolved where every class purposefully had a nonsense name to disconnect them with archetypal baggage. While it does break assumption about "barbarians being furry loincloth" and "bards being troubadours", it also was hard to conceptualize and explain what an Oathsworn, Greenbond or Unfettered was.
 

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Ok, I'm trying to find a fun name and niche. And I don't want it to be "dark mc dark dark fighter" in name or in core theme.

Just like in 5e a Paladin can be a Paladin of Vengence or Conquest, by reaiming Paladins at being fueled by a mystical Oath instead of goodness they gave the class more thematic life.

So...

Oath-eater.

This is on the negative connotation side, just like Paladin has positive connotations. But it could be neutral or even good.

I'm thinking that you have Curses and Wards. Curses you tend to put on foes, Wards on yourself and/or allies.

Limit how many Wards you can have up at a time, and on a given creature, and ditto for Curses.

A core mechanic is consuming your Curses and Wards ("eating" them) (they are both kinds of "Oath" magic).

Power source wise, Oath-eaters gain their power by harvesting broken pacts and magical oaths. You can have an oath-eater bounty hunter who hunts fallen paladins and warlocks who betray their patron. You can have a Oath-eater who gained their power because a Paladin fell, or even caused a Paladin to fall. Or one that has hunted an infernal warlocks and killed them, taking the power of their pact for their own.

Being powered by stolen and broken pacts it leans nicely into "bad mc bady bad". And that also explains why the abilities can be a pseudo-hybrid of Paladin and Warlock ones on top of a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue chassy.

The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue split could be like the Book/Chain/Blade Warlock.
 

Ok, I'm trying to find a fun name and niche. And I don't want it to be "dark mc dark dark fighter" in name or in core theme.

Just like in 5e a Paladin can be a Paladin of Vengence or Conquest, by reaiming Paladins at being fueled by a mystical Oath instead of goodness they gave the class more thematic life.

So...

Oath-eater.

This is on the negative connotation side, just like Paladin has positive connotations. But it could be neutral or even good.

I'm thinking that you have Curses and Wards. Curses you tend to put on foes, Wards on yourself and/or allies.

Limit how many Wards you can have up at a time, and on a given creature, and ditto for Curses.

A core mechanic is consuming your Curses and Wards ("eating" them) (they are both kinds of "Oath" magic).

Power source wise, Oath-eaters gain their power by harvesting broken pacts and magical oaths. You can have an oath-eater bounty hunter who hunts fallen paladins and warlocks who betray their patron. You can have a Oath-eater who gained their power because a Paladin fell, or even caused a Paladin to fall. Or one that has hunted an infernal warlocks and killed them, taking the power of their pact for their own.

Being powered by stolen and broken pacts it leans nicely into "bad mc bady bad". And that also explains why the abilities can be a pseudo-hybrid of Paladin and Warlock ones on top of a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue chassy.

The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue split could be like the Book/Chain/Blade Warlock.
This works but is a little too esoteric for my taste.

I think we can do well taking some words that aren't used very much anymore and turning them on their head. Perhaps Praetor might be a strong sounding candidate for the Illrigger's rename.

Praetor, Hellion, Conqueror -- these are all names I could see fitting it.
 

Ok, I'm trying to find a fun name and niche. And I don't want it to be "dark mc dark dark fighter" in name or in core theme.

Just like in 5e a Paladin can be a Paladin of Vengence or Conquest, by reaiming Paladins at being fueled by a mystical Oath instead of goodness they gave the class more thematic life.

So...

Oath-eater.

This is on the negative connotation side, just like Paladin has positive connotations. But it could be neutral or even good.

I'm thinking that you have Curses and Wards. Curses you tend to put on foes, Wards on yourself and/or allies.

Limit how many Wards you can have up at a time, and on a given creature, and ditto for Curses.

A core mechanic is consuming your Curses and Wards ("eating" them) (they are both kinds of "Oath" magic).

Power source wise, Oath-eaters gain their power by harvesting broken pacts and magical oaths. You can have an oath-eater bounty hunter who hunts fallen paladins and warlocks who betray their patron. You can have a Oath-eater who gained their power because a Paladin fell, or even caused a Paladin to fall. Or one that has hunted an infernal warlocks and killed them, taking the power of their pact for their own.

Being powered by stolen and broken pacts it leans nicely into "bad mc bady bad". And that also explains why the abilities can be a pseudo-hybrid of Paladin and Warlock ones on top of a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue chassy.

The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue split could be like the Book/Chain/Blade Warlock.
It's an interesting take! I think I'd go a little less D&D specific and maybe make a more general Sin-Eater. Harvesting or accepting the karmic/cosmic evil of others is a pretty reasonable power source, and you can play on different ways of approaching the concept, just slightly broader than your proposal.
 
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It's an interesting take! I think I'd go a little less D&D specific and maybe make a more general Sin-Eater. Harvesting or accepting the karmic/cosmic evil of others is a pretty content power source, and you can play on different ways of approaching the concept, just slightly broader than your proposal.
This is a concept I use for a class called the "Heresiarch," which I learned a year ago was a real word (and is a cool one at that). At first I was worried that using evil as a source of power wasn't good enough an idea, but I've since come around on it. Glad to see others like the idea as a base concept too.
 


It's an interesting take! I think I'd go a little less D&D specific and maybe make a more general Sin-Eater. Harvesting or accepting the karmic/cosmic evil of others is a pretty reasonable power source, and you can play on different ways of approaching the concept, just slightly broader than your proposal.
The nice thing about "Oath-Eater" is that it is agnostic about if the Oath is broken; it could eat evil Oaths, it could eat good Oaths that are broken, it could eat intact good Oaths.

The class just ... eats Oaths.

Nom nom nom.

Sin-Eater couldn't (semantically) eat the Oath of a virtuous, intact Paladin.

Oath-Eater also has the nice property as setting it up thematically as an Anti-Paladin without saying Anti-Paladin directly. (But also, Anti-Warlock). And as both promises of protection and Curses are kinds of Oaths, it can eat Seals both on enemies (Curses) and on allies (Wards), giving it a bit more mechanical width.

We could even steal from the 4e Swordmage and call "defensive" Seals "Aegis"s (greek word for shield). The 4e Swordmage Aegis was a kind of "promise of protection" that when violated (the promise was broken) the Swordmage would use to defend the ally. There is also the 4e Avenger whose Oath of Enmity was a kind of "Seal" that, when fullfilled (Eaten), let the Avenger go after another target. (The Avenger promised to hunt down their target and defeat them; there where a few ways to change your target or even go after 2 targets at once)

So the Oath-Eater lore justifies stealing (some) mechanics from two very fondly remembered Gish classes.
 


Ok, I'm trying to find a fun name and niche. And I don't want it to be "dark mc dark dark fighter" in name or in core theme.

Just like in 5e a Paladin can be a Paladin of Vengence or Conquest, by reaiming Paladins at being fueled by a mystical Oath instead of goodness they gave the class more thematic life.

So...

Oath-eater.

This is on the negative connotation side, just like Paladin has positive connotations. But it could be neutral or even good.

I'm thinking that you have Curses and Wards. Curses you tend to put on foes, Wards on yourself and/or allies.

Limit how many Wards you can have up at a time, and on a given creature, and ditto for Curses.

A core mechanic is consuming your Curses and Wards ("eating" them) (they are both kinds of "Oath" magic).

Power source wise, Oath-eaters gain their power by harvesting broken pacts and magical oaths. You can have an oath-eater bounty hunter who hunts fallen paladins and warlocks who betray their patron. You can have a Oath-eater who gained their power because a Paladin fell, or even caused a Paladin to fall. Or one that has hunted an infernal warlocks and killed them, taking the power of their pact for their own.

Being powered by stolen and broken pacts it leans nicely into "bad mc bady bad". And that also explains why the abilities can be a pseudo-hybrid of Paladin and Warlock ones on top of a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue chassy.

The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue split could be like the Book/Chain/Blade Warlock.
Oath-eater sounds a lot like Oaf-eater, which is either a harlot with low standards or a cannibal dining on the same.
 


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