D&D 4E Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked

[Parmandur]

Well when you put a superman in the game it behoves you to put Kryptonite in the story it when it takes extreme/weird measures like inducing a oath bound hero like Cu Chulainn to eat dog to defeat him that is evidence of power and how normal circumstances really arent a threat....

It is by no means evidence they are somehow within reach of low level threats.

Not so much within reach, as in the same world. As the DMG outlines, it's pretty easy to take the bounded numbers, but play it Wuxia, or Celtic myth. No need for the numbers to change, if you change the narrative representation.

Still, a Level 20 PC isn't likely to be killed by a legion of Goblins, but putting defeat utterly out if reach isn't the style the game went for. That sort of "outleveling" of threats is...eh.

 

[Garthanos]

To be fair one was a 5e reference to keep the Jester happy and one was an ADnD reference. 5e does not really have real Wishes.

4e did have a wish ritual you wouldnt call it real either I am certain. LOL but don't confuse me you meanie, I trust what people type and I do not want to buy that bridge.

Point being that luck doesn't have to do "one thing" it can influence many different things.
Most heroes in fiction seem to have some luck factor going on sometimes its bad enough to get them in trouble and good enough to get them out.

Luck as something that runs out... is poorly represented by die rolls. And much better as an element of hit points.

Heck it might even be like magic it gets woven a bit differently depending on the characters culture.. it could be fun to have different beliefs in what exactly is lucky manifest.

 

[Garthanos]

Matrim of the Wheel of Time had a luck power that almost felt like him getting an auto 20 when he used it. Its not a Warlord or Rogue ability exactly but rather just one of those abilities he had being a Ta'veren

Would being lucky always mean you had that ability... meh. That would be boring.

 

[Shasarak]

Point being that luck doesn't have to do "one thing" it can influence many different things.
Most heroes in fiction seem to have some luck factor going on sometimes its bad enough to get them in trouble and good enough to get them out.

Luck as something that runs out... is poorly represented by die rolls. And much better as an element of hit points.

I was just reading through the old Fighting Fantasy rules which uses a Luck pool that decreases as you use it up as well as being able to go up (and down) to reflect your fortune within the game.

 

[Garthanos]

Not so much within reach, as in the same world. As the DMG outlines, it's pretty easy to take the bounded numbers, but play it Wuxia, or Celtic myth. No need for the numbers to change, if you change the narrative representation.

Still, a Level 20 PC isn't likely to be killed by a legion of Goblins, but putting defeat utterly out if reach isn't the style the game went for. That sort of "outleveling" of threats is...eh.

Taking you literally kind of ...

I have been working out how to bring armies (from fireteams up through legions) into 4e skill challenges ...hmmm A 17 level Warlord/Aragorn might be able to cash in some karmic chips on bringing a force that size) But I think the one Aragorn marshalled was actually more significant than Goblins he would be more of a level 20+ ie it is an epic class effect.

 

[Parmandur]

Taking you literally kind of ...

I have been working out how to bring armies (from fireteams up through legions) into 4e skill challenges ...hmmm A 17 level Warlord/Aragorn might be able to cash in some karmic chips on bringing a force of undead of that size)

Interestingly enough, Mearls was talking about experimenting with something along those lines for 5E redently.

 

[Garthanos]

Interestingly enough, Mearls was talking about experimenting with something along those lines for 5E redently.

OK that does make me curious I think the concept has a fairly strong foundation in 4e but not so much in what I have seen in 5e.

 

[Parmandur]

OK that does make me curious I think the concept has a fairly strong foundation in 4e but not so much in what I have seen in 5e.

He's been experimenting with Skill Challenges, and in his latest Twitch broadcast, he talked about that briefly, specifically a simplified mass combat system for "foregone conclusion" fights that should drain resources but may not be worth busting out a battle map.

 

[Garthanos]

He's been experimenting with Skill Challenges, and in his latest Twitch broadcast, he talked about that briefly, specifically a simplified mass combat system for "foregone conclusion" fights that should drain resources but may not be worth busting out a battle map.

Yes that definitely sounds like we are thinking in similar veins at minimum with similar inspirations its a mashup of elements implied but rarely brought to the table in 1e and the 4e SC structure but it is feeling like it might need a higher grade of detail / or it might work fine.

 

[Garthanos]

But another problem that shows up here is that the most efficient way to stop casters from blowing up enemies is to spread them out. And that then makes things really difficult for the melee Fighter unable to reach targets.

And definitely no come and get it... to help in that arena.