Do We Really Need Half-Elves and Half-Orcs?

[Henry]

Re: the domination of the River/Simon/Alliance arc in Firefly — I just counted, and it was the “A” plot of only three of the 14 episodes (Serenity, Ariel, and Objects in Space). That’s not bad for spotlight sharing for two of the seven crew. A “last gnome” subplot would not be that hard to plausibly work in to a DS campaign, nor would it have to be onerous to share with other characters, as others have shown - it’s only a unworkable if a GM decides it is.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Re: the domination of the River/Simon/Alliance arc in Firefly — I just counted, and it was the “A” plot of only three of the 14 episodes (Serenity, Ariel, and Objects in Space). That’s not bad for spotlight sharing for two of the seven crew. A “last gnome” subplot would not be that hard to plausibly work in to a DS campaign, nor would it have to be onerous to share with other characters, as others have shown - it’s only a unworkable if a GM decides it is.

It was present in every episode since she was introduced. Whether it was the "A" plot isn't relevant as it came up over and over again. Additionally, she was a character that mostly would blend into the environment as long as the party stayed away from the core worlds. A gnome is going to be an oddity everywhere in Dark Sun.

I know there has been some push back on this, but I have seen this type of scenario play out in games before and it sucks the oxygen out of other character arcs. Maybe others have had different experiences, but I would never allow such a character arc into a game I ran unless everyone at the table bought in.

The River Arc was the show. All of the other episodes were side plots building to the resolution of her arc. If the show had been able to run for an additional season or two her arc would have had more of a slow burn -- but the same can be said for most D&D campaigns. Few campaigns run for even a full year.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

I really don't get the opposition some people have to D&D campaigns that don't allow players to use the full PHB race roster (or worse, every setting's race roster). I think there are a lot of campaign ideas where 'the kitchen sink' just doesn't work for the story of the campaign, and the idea that a DM is some kind of horrible player-hating monster for running a story where a group of humans probe into a newly magical world, a band of kobolds set out to explore the wider world, or a world where elves and dwarves were wiped out is foreign to me. Is it really that awful to decide that maybe Warforged and Thri-Kreen are just too world-specific to fit this game? Or to use D&D rules to run a game set in the Elder Scrolls world?

Yeah, if you're just playing 'A D&D game' and the setting is just a backdrop for doing adventures, then there's not really much reason to disallow races other than balance. Even races that don't fit the world can be someone who accidentally plane-traveled. But I don't see why a DM should be condemned for running a setting that isn't just 'standard D&D world 8372', the idea that if you use the D&D rules you can't change any background elements doesn't make sense to me.

 

[WaterRabbit]

I didn't handwave. I explained exactly why your argument wasn't strong. It's because everything you are attributing to the gnome character, and to the DM and players in that game, can be attributed to any number of other characters in the setting (preservers, freed slaves, outlaws, etc.), and to other DMs and players telling other stories in other games.

Here I thought we were having a discussion instead of an argument. I am not trying to "prove" my viewpoint to you so the strength of my "argument" is totally irrelevant. Arguing matters of taste is pointless.
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There are thousands of preservers, free slaves, and outlaws, etc. There is only one gnome, so once discovered it going to stand out as an anomaly. Every session of the game is going to have to take this into account. It may not be the major story for that session. Other character arcs will exist, but this one is always going to cast its shadow on them. Well you could have a party of the "lasts" -- the last gnome, the last orc, the last etc.

IMHO, it would be better to just leave out the gnome and reskin the race or rework the setting instead of introducing such a disruptive element into it. A genetic mutation of a halfing or some such would be a better choice (as you suggested). A magical curse placed upon the character would still create a special arc for the character but not threaten to derail the setting. But the last actual gnome? Incongruent. Jarring. Unnecessary.

The premise of the thread has morphed a bit, but I want to reiterate again that the races chosen for a setting are part of its tone and what sets it apart from other settings. Dark Sun has a number of elements that set it apart from the rest of the D&D settings. If any ole' race is allowed it takes away from the uniqueness of that setting. Sigil, Forgotten Realms, and Spelljammer are all settings where everything is allowed including the kitchen sink. That doesn't and shouldn't have to be the norm for every setting.

Sticking a race into a setting where it was excluded is just as jarring as putting in technology into a setting that had excluded it. It changes the tone, feel, and story arcs. The Marvel Universe version of WWII is dramatically different in tone, feel, and story arcs compared to the actual event. It interjects items into it (including races) that were not part of the event. Does it create different, unique, and entertaining stories? Yes. Does it remain true to the setting? No. Same thing with putting races into settings they were purposely excluded from.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I don't usually have gnomes in my campaigns...the players hate them...will attempt to murder them or do harm on sight. I should run a game where the players are slaves in a Gnomish Empire....

 

[Satyrn]

If a reliable sighting of a real unicorn happened in the real world, you bet there would be a bunch of people clamoring to get their hands on it or kill it.

It doesn't even require a reliable sighting

Just head on over to Loch Ness and ask Bigfoot how many people ate clamoring to get their hands on a Yeti.

 

[Gammadoodler]

It was present in every episode since she was introduced. Whether it was the "A" plot isn't relevant as it came up over and over again. Additionally, she was a character that mostly would blend into the environment as long as the party stayed away from the core worlds. A gnome is going to be an oddity everywhere in Dark Sun.

I know there has been some push back on this, but I have seen this type of scenario play out in games before and it sucks the oxygen out of other character arcs. Maybe others have had different experiences, but I would never allow such a character arc into a game I ran unless everyone at the table bought in.

The River Arc was the show. All of the other episodes were side plots building to the resolution of her arc. If the show had been able to run for an additional season or two her arc would have had more of a slow burn -- but the same can be said for most D&D campaigns. Few campaigns run for even a full year.

1. Gnome as an oddity everywhere.
Sure. Two questions though.

First, "What do the characters in the world do with oddities?"

Do they rigorously investigate and report everything they see to the relevant authority? Do they take violent action to eliminate the oddity? Or, do they chalk it up to the strangeness that happens when you live in a dying world torn apart by magic and then go back to finding food for their family/ doing their jobs/etc.?

Second, "Do all NPCs know that the gnome is odd everywhere?"
We live in a world where information is broadly available and checkable at a moments notice, but this wasn't always the case. People only knew about the stuff they were close to, their family, their village, maybe their country. Not sure how Dark Sun is different. For most people's purposes, couldn't a gnome just be a person from far away? Or alternatively, isn't it possible for other members of the party would be equally alien to certain NPCs that had not encountered them before?

2. The character arc sucked the oxygen out of other characters' story arcs in first hand experience.
Simple question. How? Did the other players not care about the stuff their characters were trying to do? Did the special snowflake impede those other players' efforts to advance their stories? Did the DM impede those efforts? If any of these were true, why would a different race selection have made a difference? There are a lot of ways to build a snowflake in D&D.

The general structure of D&D is the players say what they want to do, and the DM tells them what happens, so if character arcs are being short-changed, the failure kinda has gotta happen at one of those two points.

 

[Gammadoodler]

It doesn't even require a reliable sighting


Just head on over to Loch Ness and ask Bigfoot how many people ate clamoring to get their hands on a Yeti.

And deal with the jackalopes and chupacabras?? No thank you.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Do we really need humans? They see so boring and cliche to me. :roll:

 

[Umbran]

I really don't get the opposition some people have to D&D campaigns that don't allow players to use the full PHB race roster (or worse, every setting's race roster). I think there are a lot of campaign ideas where 'the kitchen sink' just doesn't work for the story of the campaign...

To harken back to the OP...

This discussion didn't start with, "I have a specific campaign idea in which half-orcs and half-elves don't fit." It started with, "I don't understand why anyone likes these races, so I will disallow them."

And we then went to pointing out the ways in which this wasn't the best reason. I mean, a GM can still do that, but... it just isn't a very good reason. There are good reasons. This just isn't one of them.

It tis kind of...

"The one without the gannet-!?! They've ALL got the gannet!! It's a Standard British Bird, the gannet, it's in all the books!!!"

"Well, I don't like them...they wet their nests."