What solution for "Cantrips don't feel magical"?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Yardiff]

No they throw daggers/darts.

 

[Mistwell]

Sure, but that isn't my issue. My issue isn't that wizards are able to cast in all or virtually all rounds of combat. My issue is that cantrips are unlimited, which takes the magic feel away from magic for me.

Would this help?

"Cantrips manifest from within the spellcasters well of power, and become more difficult to cast over time. You may cast cantrips without difficulty a number of times equal to your spellcasting ability (intelligence, wisdom, or charisma, depending on your caster type) plus your spellcaster level. Once you exceed this number of castings you may still cast a cantrip, however it requires a Consitution (Concentration) check to successfully cast it due to the strain. The check begins at DC 10, and increases by 1 for each casting of a cantrip thereafter until you take either a short or long rest. For example, if you are a first level Wizard with a 16 Intelligence, you can cast 17 cantrips without strain, but the 18th cantrip requires a DC 10 concentration check, the 19th a DC 11 check, etc. until you take a rest. Some magic items, and in particular magical foci, may enable an increased number of cantrip castings without a check."

 

[Blue]

Would this help?

"Cantrips manifest from within the spellcasters well of power, and become more difficult to cast over time. You may cast cantrips without difficulty a number of times equal to your spellcasting ability (intelligence, wisdom, or charisma, depending on your caster type) plus your spellcaster level. Once you exceed this number of castings you may still cast a cantrip, however it requires a Consitution (Concentration) check to successfully cast it due to the strain. The check begins at DC 10, and increases by 1 for each casting of a cantrip thereafter until you take either a short or long rest. For example, if you are a first level Wizard with a 16 Intelligence, you can cast 17 cantrips without strain, but the 18th cantrip requires a DC 10 concentration check, the 19th a DC 11 check, etc. until you take a rest. Some magic items, and in particular magical foci, may enable an increased number of cantrip castings without a check."

As from the original post, at 1st level you need the most help. You have 2 slots for an estimated 26 castings. Considering 2 short rests a day, that's about 6 guaranteed cantrip uses, and then chances that your action is just completely wasted, which is even worse then firing a crossbow with lousy chance to hit. So that doesn't fulfill the "being magical and not needing mundane solutions for most things".

It also means that players won't use out-of-combat flavor cantrips like prestidigitation as much since they need to save their uses for combat. Taking more away from making casters magical.

On the other hand, at higher levels when your caster level and ability score have increased (so more base) and you proficiency bonus and possibly CON have increased (so better chance to make the roll), it gets better as it - but it quickly meets the number of slots you have so you can cantrip all the time, so that doesn't suit those who find it too mundane if it can happen all the time.

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to satisfy either criteria, failing at different level ranges.

 

[Blue]

Ah. Okay. It was hard to tell, since you seemed to be replying to a post that was talking about unlimited attacks.

[MENTION=6789021]Yardiff[/MENTION], I too have sometimes trouble following what you are responding to. It seems you always Reply to Thread button so it shows up at the top level. If you would be willing to try, it would be beneficial to me if at times you used the Reply / Reply with Quote buttons instead so it was associated with the comment that inspired your post.

Respectfully,
Blue

 

[Mistwell]

As from the original post, at 1st level you need the most help. You have 2 slots for an estimated 26 castings. Considering 2 short rests a day, that's about 6 guaranteed cantrip uses, and then chances that your action is just completely wasted, which is even worse then firing a crossbow with lousy chance to hit. So that doesn't fulfill the "being magical and not needing mundane solutions for most things".

I don't think you read my post all the way and accidentally made an incorrect assumption. I spelled it out with an example, right there in what you quoted. 17 uses, per short rest at first level assuming a 16 in your key ability score, which all reset on a short rest. Assuming 2 short rests a day to use your example, that's FIFTY ONE uses per day at first level.

I think you assumed it was spell casting ability BONUS plus level...even though I went to great lengths to spell out that it's not?

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think you read my post all the way and accidentally made an incorrect assumption. I spelled it out with an example, right there in what you quoted. 17 uses, per short rest at first level assuming a 16 in your key ability score, which all reset on a short rest. Assuming 2 short rests a day to use your example, that's FIFTY ONE uses per day at first level.

I think you assumed it was spell casting ability BONUS plus level...even though I went to great lengths to spell out that it's not?

I understood what you meant, but it's still too much for me. 51 castings at 1st level is almost twice the total number of castings you will need on a busy day. The wand idea is still my favorite idea. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[jayoungr]

2. To me, one way the awesomeness and specialness of something is devalued is by its banal commonness. To use a real-life example, I still remember the banana splits I got as a kid; we got them twice a year, at this one restaurant, and they were amazing. They were special. They mattered to me in a way that deserts that I had more often didn't.

Oh, I understand the principle. But I note that when these threads come up on the board--and they do, frequently--they are almost always coming from one of two sources: DMs and players of martial classes. The people who actually play spellcasters almost never wish for artificial scarcity of spells just to make fireball seem like a bigger deal, and of those few who do, I'm betting that a large portion of them started with older editions of D&D, so they're used to the idea.

To me, you sound like you're saying you want the government to impose national rationing on ice cream so that everybody can enjoy their banana splits as much as you remember enjoying them when you were a kid. You're hoping/assuming that the enjoyment of a suddenly-scarce banana split will outweigh the annoyance of having your ice cream taken away against your will. You say it makes banana splits more special; I think it makes the everyday world that much more drab and miserable. I mean, I'm sure banana splits were a delightful rarity in Soviet Russia, but I wouldn't want to live there.

it ceases to be amazing. Magic has become mundane.

I think the sticking point, for me, is that you're treating all magic as one giant blob and saying all spells should be equal in terms of story impact. To me, a world where everybody can do a cantrip or two doesn't devalue magic itself; it makes the whole world more colorful and interesting, less "Soviet Russia." The big, splashy spells are still rare and exciting.

That's just my two cents.

This is just my opinion. I want you to have all the fun you want!

I appreciate that you said this, though!

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Blue]

I don't think you read my post all the way and accidentally made an incorrect assumption. I spelled it out with an example, right there in what you quoted. 17 uses, per short rest at first level assuming a 16 in your key ability score, which all reset on a short rest. Assuming 2 short rests a day to use your example, that's FIFTY ONE uses per day at first level.

I think you assumed it was spell casting ability BONUS plus level...even though I went to great lengths to spell out that it's not?

My apologies, you are correct. I am so conditioned only to think of ability score modifiers having impact in 5e that I glossed right over both when you said it and the numbers when you gave the example.