Out Of Combat Action Surge Uses

[Mistwell]

What [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION] and [MENTION=27385]aco175[/MENTION] said. I'm sure that Action Surges can be used out of combat, they just aren't. A player won't normally want to "waste" the ability trying to force a door or climb over a wall or whatever, because they will want to hang on to that surge for whatever might be lurking behind it.

I'm sure our DM could engineer a very specific situation that might force a player to use an action surge out of combat, but it hasn't happened yet. (Or if it has, we have found other ways around it. We're pretty stingy with our per-rest abilities.)

Waste? Why would those activities be more important than a chase scene or not getting caught? I'd say those are usually more important than an extra set of attacks, in the grand scheme of a campaign. Plus, if you are already out of combat, an hour of non-strenuous activity is easier to come by to regenerate the ability.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Combat or not, if the characters are not in a situation that requires initiative to be rolled, then there is no such thing as an "action". Otherwise, turns and actions do not matter and there is only the player saying what they want their character to do and the DM saying whether they can or not. I would also limit it to physical actions. If it were supposed to include mental actions, why don't the Int-based classes get it too?

 

[CleverNickName]

Waste? Why would those activities be more important than a chase scene or not getting caught? I'd say those are usually more important than an extra set of attacks, in the grand scheme of a campaign. Plus, if you are already out of combat, an hour of non-strenuous activity is easier to come by to regenerate the ability.

I should have phrased it better. Instead of writing "A player won't...", I should have written "Our players won't..." I shouldn't try to speak for everyone.

I've never seen a player use an action surge out of combat. (Unless you count disengaging from an enemy and then dashing to safety. Does escaping combat count as being "in combat" or being "out of combat"? Because I've seen that done a couple of times.)

 

[S'mon]

I don't think I would use #4 or #6 out of combat, because picking locks or talking persuasively are not things I see as normally being done in a couple seconds like that, and I don't have "remember stuff" take an action. But certainly I'd allow feats of athleticism using AS.

 

[Li Shenron]

In my opinion, Action Surge can be used out of combat. Here is the text, "Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action."

It says actions and turns, but then spells say the same thing (and yes I can quote plenty of places in the Spells section which mentions turns and actions)...but everyone agrees you can cast spells outside of combat as well, right? So by that logic, there should be no rule against using action surge out of combat in the appropriate situation.

What is the appropriate situation? Any encounter or challenge out of combat with a time constraint involved where normally the DM would ask the PC for their action. In such cases, a Fighter should be able to choose an action (like a skill check) and then action surge to apply a second action (like another skill check).

So what are some examples of out of combat challenges where action surge could help?

Here are some of mine.

1) Party is scaling a wall or cliff to enter a building and doing it quickly is of concern because they don't want to be spotted by the roving guards. Where others can climb 15 feet in 6 seconds, the fighter could climb 30 feat with an action surge.
2) The party ducks into the Count's bedroom during the ball to search for a key, and they have moments before they must leave or be caught. Where others can make either an active perception check or an active investigation check in 6 seconds, you can do both with an action surge.
3) Any sneaking: Where others can move 15 feet when sneaking, the fighter can move 30.
4) Some persuasion checks can benefit from PC knowledge mid-conversation. When the DM says "You can make either a history or religion check to try and remember something quickly to help you persuade the priest you mean well" others must choose one of those checks but you can make both checks with an action surge.
5) Chase: Where others can dash once per six seconds away from or after someone you can dash twice.
6) Any situation involving a quick skill check. Normally when you blow a skill check in those time-sensitive situations, you're screwed...but not you, sometimes. You can blow a skill check and where appropriate spend an action surge and try it again or try an alternative skill check. Do you need to get into the room quick before the villian slays your friend? Attempt to pick the lock with a thieves tools check, and if that fails action surge to try and bash the door open with an athletics check.
7) [MENTION=6801204]Satyrn[/MENTION] mentioned a situation that happened to me as well. An ally fell in rapids and was being swept towards a waterfall (in Forge of Fury). Anyone near the shore down stream had one chance to try and grab our ally before he went over the falls...except my fighter. I tried, failed, action surged, and succeeded on my second try!

What are some examples you can think of, and have you used Action Surge out of combat?

With the exception of 4) (I don't run Knowledge checks as "trying to remember" actions) I don't see any reason to disallow any of these uses.

 

[Quartz]

What are some examples you can think of, and have you used Action Surge out of combat?

Some of those could be covered by tweaking Indomitable (e.g. 4, 6, and 7).

But I particularly like 1, 2, 3, and 5.

 

[Henry]

I should have phrased it better. Instead of writing "A player won't...", I should have written "Our players won't..." I shouldn't try to speak for everyone.

I've never seen a player use an action surge out of combat. (Unless you count disengaging from an enemy and then dashing to safety. Does escaping combat count as being "in combat" or being "out of combat"? Because I've seen that done a couple of times.)

I can't say I've ever seen a player use an action surge outside of combat, either, but Mistwell's example of getting one last try to catch someone from falling would be a compelling instance. It's just that for anyone who has action surge, it's not often remembered in out of combat situations - it's like a bard starting with regaining bardic inspiration on a long rest, and then four levels later they start getting it back on short OR long rest - it can be easy to forget until you get used to it.

 

[aco175]

Combat or not, if the characters are not in a situation that requires initiative to be rolled, then there is no such thing as an "action". Otherwise, turns and actions do not matter and there is only the player saying what they want their character to do and the DM saying whether they can or not. I would also limit it to physical actions. If it were supposed to include mental actions, why don't the Int-based classes get it too?

I might be careful with this one. Most of the time conversation and such turns to combat and initiative is rolled, then traditional actions are used. If we are just talking and I turn to a player and ask what his PC is doing- it is his turn and I feel he is using actions to talk and such. When we need to determine who gets to do more than this I may ask for initiative to know if one thing will influence the next. Walking across the old bridge I may call for a marching order but not initiative. If the fighter wants to use Action Surge to grab someone falling, I would most likely allow it if he is next to the other PC. Would the others want to use their reaction though if the fighter is not next to them? Typically I give falling PCs a change to grab something after they failed their first check before actually falling though.

 

[Plaguescarred]

So what are some examples of out of combat challenges where action surge could help?

When you want to give your partner a another round

Seriously though IMO you gave good exemples of Action Surge usage i'd say any time where a PC can take actions (which is just about anytime), he should be able to benefit from Action Surge, more common will involve an ability check or skill check of some kind.

 

[CleverNickName]

I can't say I've ever seen a player use an action surge outside of combat, either, but Mistwell's example of getting one last try to catch someone from falling would be a compelling instance. It's just that for anyone who has action surge, it's not often remembered in out of combat situations - it's like a bard starting with regaining bardic inspiration on a long rest, and then four levels later they start getting it back on short OR long rest - it can be easy to forget until you get used to it.

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