D&D 5E Shield Mastery Feat

[KarinsDad]

That's a bizarre stance that isn't supported by the text of the feat or by the rules for actions and bonus actions.

Actually, it is supported by the text of the feat and by the rules for actions and bonus actions.

It's not bizarre at all. The bonus action is not possible at all unless the attack action is taken.

No attack action without an attack (as per the rule). No attack without a melee or ranged attack roll (as per the rule, shy of a special attack). The rules indicate what is part of an attack action, and what is part of an attack. Without these components, the PC has not yet taken an attack action.

 

[Azzy]

Of course not. I didn't feel that I had to explain that my sentence was a semantic example. Say you had a magic item that stated:

"Feather Token: This token has 3 Charges, and it regains 1d3 expended daily at dawn. When you fall any distance greater than 5 feet while wearing it on your turn, you can use a bonus action to expend 1 of its Charges to cast Feather Fall."

Most people wouldn't interpret this to mean that you could cast feather fall before falling into a pit on your turn.

Again, the verbiage is different as it specifies a timing ("when").

Like I said, I interpret "if you take" to mean "if you take", not "if you are about to take".

But it's not "if you take", it's "if you take on your turn". There is a difference. If the "on your turn" clause wasn't there or if a "then" was inserted into the text of the feat (which they could have easily done with any of the successive printings) and the whole "you choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified" (it's not, unlike several other instances of bonus actions), I'd happily agree with you. However, here we are.

"If you take the pie on your turn, then you can use a bonus action to hide it behind your back. You can't hide it behind your back until you actually take it.

As that would be physically impossible unlike being able to shove someone and then attack them. Context is key.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's a bizarre stance that isn't supported by the text of the feat or by the rules for actions and bonus actions.

PHB 189 Bonus Actions

...You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take...

Shield Master only says you can take the bonus action if you take the attack action on your turn. Thus, If you haven't taken the attack action on your turn you don't have a bonus action from shield master to take.

 

[Azzy]

PHB 189 Bonus Actions



Shield Master only says you can take a bonus action if you take the attack action on your turn. Thus, If you haven't taken the attack action on your turn you don't have a bonus action from shield master to take.

Same page, "you choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified".

 

[FrogReaver]

Same page, "you choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified".

My argument has nothing to do with timing of a bonus action, it has to do with whether you even have it to take. In the case of shield master you have no bonus action to take until you take the attack action. After you have the bonus action to take you can take it at any point.

 

[5ekyu]

In the extremely rare case that a shove as the last thing I do with my actions is useful, I can always substitute a shove for an attack. I'm not saying it never comes up ... just that it happens so rarely (maybe once or twice for my 10th level character) it doesn't justify the cost of a feat IMHO.

In addition as others have pointed out, I think it just sets up rule-mechanics silliness for no good reason. I can shove and then hit followed by another shove if I have multiple attacks but I have to wait for all my attacks t be completed before shoving if I want to do it as a Shield Master? It doesn't make sense from a simulation or ease of understanding perspective.

Feel free to rule differently at your table of course.

" I can shove and then hit followed by another shove if I have multiple attacks but I have to wait for all my attacks t be completed before shoving if I want to do it as a Shield Master?"

This is wrong.

If you have Shield master and extra attack you can take the attack action to shove, hit, then shove as BA with shield master. So your example is the same with shield master. The sequence is the same. In your example.

 

[Azzy]

My argument has nothing to do with timing of a bonus action, it has to do with whether you even have it to take. In the case of shield master you have no bonus action to take until you take the attack action. After you have the bonus action to take you can take it at any point.

It's revelent because there would be no necessity for the timing clause if things worked as you claim, as all bonus actions would happen after whatever allows it.

 

[FrogReaver]

It's revelent because there would be no necessity for the timing clause if things worked as you claim, as all bonus actions would happen after whatever allows it.

But shield master bonus action doesn't have a timing. You can use it anytime on your turn after you have it. What matters is whether you have the bonus action or not. In the case of shield master you don't have the bonus action until you perform the attack action. After that you are welcome to use the bonus action you have at any time you choose.

 

[Oofta]

I often want a melee PC to move somewhere else.

The DM had a Gobliln attack the Fighter and a Bugbear attack the Wizard.

You bet I want the Fighter to move over to the Bugbear without most likely taking damage from the Goblin.


As for your ranged point, that point is the same regardless of how one rules the feat.

None of this has anything to do with niche builds. It has to do with interpretation of the feat.

Okay, so at the end of your turn you pushed the goblin back and went over to stand by your wizard. So? You're done with your turn the bugbear can continue to attack the wizard next round and as an added bonus the goblin can come over as well or use their shortbow to help kill the wizard. Heck, you've done the goblin a favor, he can now use his cunning to hide and potentially get advantage.

I've had this discussion before and I've never come up with many scenarios where the feat is worth much.

If my fighter shoves someone away, that just means they're free to move about the room. I want them to pay a penalty (an opportunity attack) for moving to engage someone else. Occasionally I could knock someone over a cliff, but if that's a valid option I'd probably just sacrifice one of my melee attacks.

If my fighter knocks a monster prone, other PCs may be able to get advantage on their attacks but only if they go after my PC, before the prone target and are within 5 feet of the target when they attack. Ranged attacks will be at disadvantage. It's probably a wash tactically in a lot of cases. If I wanted to reliably give my buddies advantage, I'd be a barbarian.

If my fighter moves after knocking the monster prone, I provoke an opportunity attack. It will be at disadvantage of course, but still not a great idea.

What happens next?

• The monster stands and moves to attack my fighter. I took an opportunity attack for no reason.
• The monster stands and does a ranged attack (no disadvantage unless someone else is adjacent) against the target of their choice.
• The monster stands and closes with someone other than my fighter.
• The monster stands, but my fighter has moved too far away for it to engage. It simply attacks someone else. That someone else probably has a worse AC than I do because I'm the one with the shield.
• The monster stands, but my fighter has moved too far away for it to engage. There's no one else in movement range so it simply retreats, possibly behind full cover or to get allies.

None of these scenarios buys me anything, it just makes my fighter a worse tank.

A scenario where it might make sense?

• The creature I knock prone only has 30 ft movement or so.
• We're all in an open field and all other PCs are more than 15 feet away
• My PC had more than 15 feet of movement left on their turn
• The monster can't simply leave or go around a corner
• My buddy has pole-arm master and he hasn't used it yet and the monster has to approach them instead

So I guess it could happen if I have the movement and don't care about opportunity attacks?

 

[Azzy]

But shield master bonus action doesn't have a timing.

Ergo, my point.

What matters is whether you have the bonus action or not. In the case of shield master you don't have the bonus action until you perform the attack action.

That is not upheld by the text, though—it doesn't say that you must first perform an attack action or that the attack action is granting you the bonus action (it's not, the feat is)—it merely requires you to take the attack action in the same turn as the bonus action.