Sage Advice Compendium Update 1/30/2019

[Yunru]

JC claimed that.

And? It didn't make it into the Compendium, which is where he revises stuff and makes it canon.

 

[FrogReaver]

And? It didn't make it into the Compendium, which is where he revises stuff and makes it canon.

The compendium could have easily overruled that tweet by expressly calling out the idea as incorrect. It didn't and so the tweet still stands as the closest to official stance we have on the matter of bonus actions between attacks granted by the attack action.

 

[Yunru]

The compendium could have easily overruled that tweet by expressly calling out the idea as incorrect. It didn't

No, it didn't. Instead it overruled that tweet by categorising it and all other tweets as unofficial.
If they meant "they're all unofficial but this one still applies" then they would have restated that one.

There is no "50 shades of canon" here. Something's either official or it's not.

 

[Hriston]

As was pointed out to me a while back when I asked Crawford about the timing issue, there is no declaration step or phase, or whatever you want to call it, in 5E. That is a legacy of previous editions. So you attack or you do not attack. There is no saying "I am going to attack" and then get to do a bonus action before the attack is resolved. If the rules say "take the attack action" then you have to make an attack in order to trigger the bonus action.

I would say that you have to take at least one attack first before attempting to shove.

Shoving a creature is an attack, so by shoving a creature you are using the Attack action which triggers the feat and gives you a bonus action. You can then decide in what order you use the bonus action and your other attack(s) you get from using the Attack action. There is no declaration phase required here.

edit: Oh boy! My 2,000th post!

 

[Oofta]

Just as importantly, we know that JC on twitter says the that taking the attack action requires completing all your attacks uninterrupted with bonus actions. Currently that is the most official ruling we have on that matter and so it will stand until he flip flops on it as well.

In the meantime I'm with you and ignore the official ruling in this case.

Yeah, I was trying to find that one (actions can't be interrupted) but I can't. I know it's not officially official, but some people in AL treat it as such. Which means that not only can my oath of the ancients not use a shield bash in a way that makes it consistently worthwhile to me, it also means I can't attack/misty step/attack.

Ultimately the biggest issue is that it's just so reliant on gamer speak and rules lawyering instead of just being a simple flow.

 

[Oofta]

The PCS can be extraordinary people while some NPCs are also extraordinary people. Not mutually exclusive concepts.

Also, your dispute with Paul seems silly (each of you). You're upset about scenarios that have never happened to either of you and likely never will. All RPGs have corner cases. None will always function best with corner cases - which is why you have a DM. I'd much rather hear about your games and what you've actually encountered rather than this silly white room theoretical "If an 11th level wizard with this particular spell comes across a half-orc commoner with this particular racial trait something unanticipated may occur on a small chance."

I mean, have you had issues with disintegrate and low level half-orcs with this racial trait? If not...why are you guys even discussing it beyond a footnote minor observation?

But ...

 

[FrogReaver]

I agree it's a ruling that does not make sense. And I told Crawford so on Twitter fairly loudly.

Honestly I found the feat to be pretty mediocre anyway. Using a bonus action to have a chance to shove so I'd have a chance at advantage was...not that big a deal. It would annoy our ranged attackers in the party to no end. More often than not it meant advantage for one attack (me) and disadvantage for two attacks (fellow party members). I am sure it works great for melee-based parties, but for our group it was never particularly good to begin with and this ruling made it even worse.

Yea, I think the notion of attack actions being uninterruptible by bonus actions is something he is ultimately going to back track on eventually. Just don't hold your breath as it might take him 3 years to do so as it took him nearly 3 years to acknowledge that the attack action must actually be taken before the shield master shove.

 

[Krachek]

From the sage advice: “Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action. “
English is not my primary langage, but it seem clear.

But go over it, feats are not all equal and appealing for optimizing,
Take some beers and write down a “sane feat variants” list for your table.
In that variant list the shove would be a straight bonus action and savage attacker sometime a better take than GWM.

 

[Yunru]

it can be near zero, but it is not zero.

True, it's not 0.
You know what it is?
0.00047299171028%

 

[DQDesign]

True, it's not 0.
You know what it is?
0.00047299171028%

which, divided by 0, is equal to infinite.
so half-orcs are still infinitely more resistant to disintegration than anything else XD XD XD