Have you played without archetypes?

[Satyrn]

 

[Mepher]

Sigh...

You know what, you're all right. What was I thinking?

5E is AWESOME! Best D&D EVER!!! All hail WotC and the Lords of Options and Choices!!

HAH-ZAA! HAH-ZAA! HAH-ZAA!

Thanks for convincing me that D&D is basically dead. Like most things it's become a game of so many choices where if options and rewards aren't shoved down your throat you can't even think of what to do on your own. There is a constant need for reward and accomplishment where before it was just the fun of a great adventure.

If you felt that options were limited in 1E and even 2E, then I pity your games. Your options were your imagination. Remember that? An imagination? No, I suppose you probably don't since no one seems to use it anymore. I find it comical how many people also rely on the published adventures, many designed to take your characters from zero to hero and then be done with them. Sure, I loved some of the module adventures in 1E, but over 95% of my stuff was good, old-fashioned, home-made adventures.

There is so much stuff in 5E that is crap and has irked me from the beginning: (of course, much of this was born in 3E...)

• Way too many oversimplified mechanics
• Dragonborn, Tieflings, and monster-PCs
• Same XP for every class
• Max HP at Level 1
• Super-quick advancement through the first levels
• Archetypes with extra abilities that are either OP, unimaginative, useless, or step on the toes of other classes
• Three different types of Arcane casters (four if you include Bard)
• Backgrounds
• Feats
• The Multiclass system
• The many "oh, its up to you" systems (like Surprise)
• The Bounded Accuracy concept
• Monsters with 100s and more hit points
• and so much more!

The game couldn't even keep me interested for 3 months without being overwhelmed by flaws and feeling it needed so many houserules it is ridiculous. I'll finish out the campaign I am currently running since I owe that to my players, but after that my 5E books will be posted on Ebay. If you find the link, they will be available cheap.

Since everyone here seems to love 5E so much, keep enjoying it. I'm glad at least someone is happy with it. I'll be dusting off my 1E books and introducing real D&D to my players.

James, don't stress it. You aren't alone in your frustrations with 5E. I have DM'd for 30+years and we never moved beyond 2E until 5E came along. We are on our 2nd campaign and I constantly hate parts of the system. We talk about house ruling it but there is so much I would have to house rule that I am sure I will be back at 1E/2E at some point. Don't stress the responses though, I get the same thing here or on other forums when it comes to 5E. I stopped caring what others think and just play my game, my way. The only reason I haven't gone back to AD&D is because some of my players are liking the options. Of course some of them are already beginning to see where the system starts breaking down as they progress in levels. Do what makes ya happy. If you like AD&D and your players are ok with it, return to what you like.

 

[Draegn]

We do not use archetypes, for, sometimes they do not fit. For example if being an assassin means accepting money to kill someone does that not define the druid who shifts into a kitten which is loved by his target's daughter gaining him access to the house, where upon he during the night pads into the mark's room to maul him as a bear?

I wonder if the backgrounds cannot be considered to be archetypes in and of themselves?

 

[Azzy]

Since everyone here seems to love 5E so much, keep enjoying it.

I know, it's almost as if this were a forum dedicated to 5e. Amazing, isn't it?

I'll be dusting off my 1E books and introducing real D&D to my players.

Yes, take your ball and go home and pretend that your favorite version of D&D is more "real" than someone elses. *slow clap*

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Thanks for convincing me that D&D is basically dead. Like most things it's become a game of so many choices where if options and rewards aren't shoved down your throat you can't even think of what to do on your own. There is a constant need for reward and accomplishment where before it was just the fun of a great adventure.

Okay.

I thought we might have a productive discussion about how you can use the same mental tools you used in 1E to approach 5E, breaking down the barriers of superficial difference and hopefully letting you enjoy the game more.

But I guess we're shouting at the kids on the lawn instead.

If you felt that options were limited in 1E and even 2E, then I pity your games. Your options were your imagination. Remember that? An imagination? No, I suppose you probably don't since no one seems to use it anymore. I find it comical how many people also rely on the published adventures, many designed to take your characters from zero to hero and then be done with them. Sure, I loved some of the module adventures in 1E, but over 95% of my stuff was good, old-fashioned, home-made adventures.

100% of my stuff is good, old-fashioned, home-made adventures.

Does that make me 5% more imaginative than you?

 

[DEFCON 1]

The game couldn't even keep me interested for 3 months without being overwhelmed by flaws and feeling it needed so many houserules it is ridiculous. I'll finish out the campaign I am currently running since I owe that to my players, but after that my 5E books will be posted on Ebay. If you find the link, they will be available cheap.

Since everyone here seems to love 5E so much, keep enjoying it. I'm glad at least someone is happy with it. I'll be dusting off my 1E books and introducing real D&D to my players.

Heh... if I were you if that's your intention, I'd drop 5E right now and start back in on 1E for your players immediately. Cause once they become accustomed to playing 5E... trying to get a 1E started and explaining even the basics like how THAC0 works is going to make them all go "Uh, you know, what? No, that's okay. We'll stick with 5E." You might find a table with no players if you try to put the genie back in the bottle before too long.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We do not use archetypes, for, sometimes they do not fit. For example if being an assassin means accepting money to kill someone does that not define the druid who shifts into a kitten which is loved by his target's daughter gaining him access to the house, where upon he during the night pads into the mark's room to maul him as a bear?

I wonder if the backgrounds cannot be considered to be archetypes in and of themselves?

That was the 1st edition assassin. In 1st edition, all assassins had to be evil because killing someone for money was evil.

The 5e assassin removes the "for money" requirement, so an assassin could be, for example, an agent licenced to kill.

Only one way in which 5e > 1e.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Heh... if I were you if that's your intention, I'd drop 5E right now and start back in on 1E for your players immediately. Cause once they become accustomed to playing 5E... trying to get a 1E started and explaining even the basics like how THAC0 works is going to make them all go "Uh, you know, what? No, that's okay. We'll stick with 5E." You might find a table with no players if you try to put the genie back in the bottle before too long.

No THAC0 in 1st edition. 1st edition was "consult the weird table". THAC0 was 2nd edition.

 

[TwoSix]

The game couldn't even keep me interested for 3 months without being overwhelmed by flaws and feeling it needed so many houserules it is ridiculous. I'll finish out the campaign I am currently running since I owe that to my players, but after that my 5E books will be posted on Ebay. If you find the link, they will be available cheap.

Since everyone here seems to love 5E so much, keep enjoying it. I'm glad at least someone is happy with it. I'll be dusting off my 1E books and introducing real D&D to my players.

8/10, solid flame-out, would read again.

 

[DEFCON 1]

No THAC0 in 1st edition. 1st edition was "consult the weird table". THAC0 was 2nd edition.

And thus my point is now... stronger? Or not? Not sure what your assistance is lending to my post.