D&D 4E 4E Redux

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm actually curious to know how many would like a game where you never got more powers. You can choose better ones as you gain levels, and your numbers grow, but you never actually get more than 1 encounter and 1 daily.

On the flip side, I'm also curious to know how many would like a game where the numbers don't grow, but you get new and better powers as you gain levels.

It's not really possible to force thousands and thousands of players to spend thousands of hours just to sate my curiosity, but if I had Xavier's powers... I'd be pretty tempted to try it out.

HoML's level progression table:

[TABLE="width: 1000"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39"]

Level​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

Powers​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

DD​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] Benefit
[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]

Tier​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/0​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain starting class feature boon
[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

Heroic Tier​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/0​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

3​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/0​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

4​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain a vitality power
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

5​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

3​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

6​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

3​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

7​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/1/1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

4​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

8​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

2/2/1​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"]

5​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423, bgcolor: #cfe7f5"] Gain an intermittent power and a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

9​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/2/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

5​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] +1 to one ability score, +1 vitality point and a vitality power
[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]

Legendary Tier​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

10​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/2/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

6​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] Gain a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

11​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/2/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

6​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

12​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/3/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

7​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] Gain an intermittent power and a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

13​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/3/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

7​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

14​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/3/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

7​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

15​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/3/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

8​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] Gain a damage die
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #e6e6e6"]
[TD="width: 39"]

16​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/3/2​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

8​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffd320"]
[TD="width: 39"]

17​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52"]

2/4/3​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 28"]

9​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 423"] +1 vitality point, +1 to one ability score, gain an intermittent power, a vitality power and a damage die
[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]

Mythic Tier​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

(some weird bug makes it impossible to paste in levels 18-20, you get an additional 'Daily' power at 20). Utilities are handled a bit differently, so they don't show up on this chart. You do go from 3 powers at 1 to 10 at 20, to there IS growth, but there are not really 'other ways' to get powers such as items like in 4e.

 

[Garthanos]

I found this the other day, someone took the fighting maneuvers of the battlemaster, added a few extras, and replaces the fighting styles with learning maneuvers instead. It's a pay what you want on drivethruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/248600/VDP-5E-Fighting-Maneuvers?manufacturers_id=13388

I'm wondering if this might do 90% of what I want to make martial combat a bit more interesting.

Ever seen the Variant Fighter?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz74Lu7ft9sycGpYbi02UHk5RmM/view

To be honest though there is a thread on here about what you give up and what you gain with 4e vs Trad D&D and it among various other things fairlly decisively confirm for me it would be way too much work to make 5e what I would want and I am better off developing 4e

 

[cbwjm]

Ever seen the Variant Fighter?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz74Lu7ft9sycGpYbi02UHk5RmM/view

To be honest though there is a thread on here about what you give up and what you gain with 4e vs Trad D&D and it among various other things fairlly decisively confirm for me it would be way too much work to make 5e what I would want and I am better off developing 4e

Looks pretty cool, I'll be adding it to my list of ideas for maneuvers. Reading through the PDF, I felt it seemed familier, turns out it's done by the same guy as the maneuvers list I linked to.

 

[Garthanos]

Looks pretty cool, I'll be adding it to my list of ideas for maneuvers. Reading through the PDF, I felt it seemed familiar, turns out it's done by the same guy as the maneuvers list I linked to.

The variant looks more versatile than the original AND simultaneously from what I read also as functionally as "balanced" as anything in 5e.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm following certain aspects of the manoeuvres in the PDF I linked earlier, that is, only a single manoeuvre on your turn . I'm also using the term exploit because it is easier to spell.

The difference is that I am linking them to when you gain a fighting style without removing the fighting styles so at 1st level, a fighter learns 3 exploits and a fighting style. A paladin and ranger learn 3 exploits and a fighting style at level 2.

I am also going to give Fighters some extra class features that interact with exploits to show that they are the master of these techniques. So far I am thinking of just a few features so far and still need to determine the levels that they gain them. One which lets them learn 2 more exploits (I'm thinking level 5), one that lets them use an exploit with an opportunity attack (in much the same way that many 4e at-wills could be used in place of a basic attack), and finally, one that lets them use two exploits on their turn.

I'm still undecided on whether or not I want to scale up the damage on exploits by spending extra attacks.