D&D 5E A Reliable Talent for Expert Stealth

[Flamestrike]

Your two sentences literally contradict each other.

That's a much more succinct way of saying it than I did!

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Nah, the rule is, get out of line of sight, and unless the DM says otherwise, try to hide.

A DM who rules that breaking line of sight isn't enough, even as a general default, is making a house rule.

Um, not quite. Not that there is anything wrong with that - house rules - mind you. I've got lots of house rule friends. My father is a house ruler.

PHB p 177:

[SECTION]Hiding
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position. An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet.
In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack before you are seen.
Ultimately, the DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5.
For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and a proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14.

What Can you See?. One of the main factors in determining whether you can find a hidden creature or object is how well you can see in an area, which might be lightly or heavily obscured, as explained in chapter 8.[/SECTION]

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Your two sentences literally contradict each other.

No, they don't. At all.

 

[tglassy]

No, they don't. At all.

Yes. They do. Completely.

You said the rules say “unless the DM says otherwise”. Then you say if the DM says otherwise, they’re making a house rule.

Thus, contradiction.

 

[WaterRabbit]

No, they don't. At all.

Yes, yes they do. Completely.

See I can play this game too.

 

[tglassy]

Yes, yes they do. Completely.

See I can play this game too.

Ha! Great minds.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes. They do. Completely.

You said the rules say “unless the DM says otherwise”. Then you say if the DM says otherwise, they’re making a house rule.

Thus, contradiction.

You're failing to parse a fairly simple sentence correctly.

 

[tglassy]

No I’m not. I could diagram it for you if you like.

 

[ParanoydStyle]

The first thing that occurs to me is magical senses or sensors of any kind. Blindsense or tremorsense for instance shouldn't necessarily care that much about how hard a rogue is to see and hear. An even more common example would be the scent ability that many beasts have (mechanically, it grants advantage to their perception test which might not be enough to detect an ultra-skilled rogue, but you could have it do more, especially in a situation where it was possible for a rogue to mask their scent, but they did not). But also Alarm is a 1st level spell that, if my interpretation of the rules is correct, there is no way for a rogue to Stealth past. Likewise, a rogue carrying magic items could be detected by Detect Magic, another 1st level spell.

What I'm getting at is, in all seriousness, the answer to your question is: "magic".

Short of magic (although really if you're playing D&D you've got to ask yourself why you'd stop short of magic), perhaps circumstance penalties? I'm thinking of something like the "ninja-proof" flooring that was super noisy to walk on that was installed in the castles of feudal Japanese warlords.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No I’m not. I could diagram it for you if you like.

What do you think “, even as a general default,” means?

Do you understand the difference between a clarifying phrase and an independent statement?

It seriously isn't a complicated sentence, but I’ll go ahead and rephrase it for you.

If a DM rules that the general default is not that breaking line of sight is enough to allow an attempt to hide, they are houseruling.

The rules state that you can hide if you break line of sight. It also says that the DM can countermand that if they think it’s appropriate. (note how this statement does not mean that the default is anything other than “you can hide if they can’t see you”, and in fact acknowledges that default as an implied statement within the explicit statement)

these two statements essentially restate each other, adding a small note of clarification on the particulars of the “process” involved in ruling on stealth.


In case there is still, somehow, confusion, I have not stated that “ruling that stealth isn’t possible in a given moment is a house rule”. If you got here and think I have, you need to reread my statements. I have stated that establishing a default that disallows stealth by simply breaking line of sight is a houserule. It changes the starting point from which stealth is determined.