Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder Second Edition: I hear it's bad - Why Bad, How Bad?

[MerricB]

I should say that none of it is yet making me not look forward to playing some PF2 — but unless it’s been dramatically streamlined somehow from what I saw with the playtest, I doubt it’ll be my go-to game. However, just hearing someone say, “does this action have the manipulate trait?” during a recent Glass Cannon Podcast makes me think this won’t be the case... 3 actions per turn and only three or four action types, good. Tons of keywords and conditions that won’t fit on one page of a cheat sheet, not so good (for me at least)...

What threw me was looking at some monster stats and finding that "Catch Rock" was a keyworded ability.

Keywords work best when they turn up ALL THE TIME, so I can remember them. Having to go to the appendix for an obscure ability doesn't thrill me.

Cheers!

 

[Parmandur]

What threw me was looking at some monster stats and finding that "Catch Rock" was a keyworded ability.

Keywords work best when they turn up ALL THE TIME, so I can remember them. Having to go to the appendix for an obscure ability doesn't thrill me.

Cheers!

The density and volume of keyworded jargon is not promising: too arcane for me.

 

[MockingBird]

I guess there wasnt much Paizo could learn from launching PF. It was an already tried and tested edition that was very popular. Paizo will learn a lot from this edition. How jargon should be embedded and how much shouldn't will be one I hope. Tomorrow is the big day and I'm excited to read some reviews. The lack of backwards compatibility is worrisome but PF3e will definitely be. Here's hoping for a successful launch.

 

[Aldarc]

Yes. Thank you.

I meant that I want to populate my sandbox with various foes. Of varying levels.

If I could only choose PL+1 (and not PL+5, say) it would quicky become absurd.

I know, and my post was speaking to that point.

 

[CapnZapp]

I know, and my post was speaking to that point.

Well, sure. But you focused on story - I had mechanics in mind. I wanted to ask if it really is true you're only expected to fight critters in a narrow level band in Pathfinder 2.

 

[CapnZapp]

How do you flag meta information like that. How do you convey information like "The Ogre you've heard of is likely 4 or more levels above you, so you need to stay well clear".

A sandbox kind of relies on the game allowing you to live long enough to learn from your mistakes. A level 5 party in 5th Edition, for example, could likely stumble across even a CR12 monster and live to tell the tale. (If they don't outright kill it, at least most of them would be able to decide to retreat before being dead or critically injured)

A sandbox relies on rules that doesn't enforce a World of Warcraft strict level band. (Any random critter five levels higher than your party in WoW would kill half your party and send the rest scattering. On the other hand, you would only find it if you enter a zone you're clearly not supposed to).

At least the kind of ttrpg sandbox I want to run, where frivolous exploration is encouraged.

 

[amethal]

How do you flag meta information like that. How do you convey information like "The Ogre you've heard of is likely 4 or more levels above you, so you need to stay well clear".

"Ah yes, we call that ogre the Butcher of Barrow Hill. He'd killed a few farmers, ate a few cows, so the Reeve hired a bunch of likely lads to deal with the problem. (You remind me a bit of those guys, actually.) Anyway, none of the poor sods came back. The Baron took a personal interest at this point. He's killed a few ogres in his time, so he gathered his men-at-arms and they headed up to Barrow Hill. They came back in a grim mood, and won't speak of what they found, but as far as I know the ogre's still there and the Baron's declared the entire area to be off limits."

Or you could just have the region around the lair littered with the bodies of dead dire wolves, each one with its skull crushed.

 

[zztong]

"Ah yes, we call that ogre the Butcher of Barrow Hill. He'd killed a few farmers, ate a few cows, so the Reeve hired a bunch of likely lads to deal with the problem. (You remind me a bit of those guys, actually.) Anyway, none of the poor sods came back. The Baron took a personal interest at this point. He's killed a few ogres in his time, so he gathered his men-at-arms and they headed up to Barrow Hill. They came back in a grim mood, and won't speak of what they found, but as far as I know the ogre's still there and the Baron's declared the entire area to be off limits."

Or you could just have the region around the lair littered with the bodies of dead dire wolves, each one with its skull crushed.

Sometimes that works. Sometimes that adds to the hype and compels the PCs to engage. At some point the DM has to consider if the players will be upset with a defeat, or if the story would suffer. If so, then the DM either has to just narrate the encounter such that the Ogre runs off the PCs or just say "that's content planned for later." But, if you've got a game where the players are okay with getting clobbered, then do the butcher's work, with care. You still want a good story.

 

[Remathilis]

Sometimes that works. Sometimes that adds to the hype and compels the PCs to engage. At some point the DM has to consider if the players will be upset with a defeat, or if the story would suffer. If so, then the DM either has to just narrate the encounter such that the Ogre runs off the PCs or just say "that's content planned for later." But, if you've got a game where the players are okay with getting clobbered, then do the butcher's work, with care. You still want a good story.

YMMV and all, but I find the DM who likes "true" sandbox settings usually have no problem with mounds of dead PCs and the occasional TPK restart.

 

[Aldarc]

YMMV and all, but I find the DM who likes "true" sandbox settings usually have no problem with mounds of dead PCs and the occasional TPK restart.

That's usually how sandboxes work.

How do you flag meta information like that. How do you convey information like "The Ogre you've heard of is likely 4 or more levels above you, so you need to stay well clear".

A sandbox kind of relies on the game allowing you to live long enough to learn from your mistakes. A level 5 party in 5th Edition, for example, could likely stumble across even a CR12 monster and live to tell the tale. (If they don't outright kill it, at least most of them would be able to decide to retreat before being dead or critically injured)

A sandbox relies on rules that doesn't enforce a World of Warcraft strict level band. (Any random critter five levels higher than your party in WoW would kill half your party and send the rest scattering. On the other hand, you would only find it if you enter a zone you're clearly not supposed to).

At least the kind of ttrpg sandbox I want to run, where frivolous exploration is encouraged.

Here is advice for running one variety of sandbox game: West Marches. In general, the further out you go from the safety of town, the more dangerous it becomes. I think it's safe to point out certain things in the map and say, "The BBEG Lich lives here. There is an ancient dragon here. Orcs are amassing here." These are things that people in the area likely know.