D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

[Ashrym]

And that is not correct. Every PC can get a bonus action. The TWF ranger is an archetype, for instance.

That is misleading. Every character can take a bonus action IF they have a bonus action available. No character can take a bonus action that doesn't exist.

Tbe same is true of reactions.

 

[Mistwell]

And that is not correct. Every PC can get a bonus action. The TWF ranger is an archetype, for instance.

While every class in theory can, the class YOU SPECIFIED FOR THIS THREAD CANNOT. Own it. Own your example. You cannot be both a duelist without feats, AND have a bonus action. YOU chose that criteria, not us. Own your example.

Here it is again, so there is no doubt you specified an impossible scenario:

...the other classes outshine it once you include attacks from the Bonus Action and the Reaction. The bonuses to damage that the other classes get simply outweigh whatever the Fighter gets.

Here's a typical table for higher-level PCs using the Duelling style. No feats.

 

[dave2008]

And that is not correct. Every PC can get a bonus action. The TWF ranger is an archetype, for instance.

No, TWF is not an archetype it is a ranger fighting style. However, TWF is also a standard combat action that anyone can take. The difference is the ranger fighting style allows you to add modifier damage to the off-hand attack and the standard TWF does not. However, both options are negated taking the Dueling Fighting Style.

 

[dave2008]

@Quartz I am going to assume one last time that you are trying to be honest and discuss fighter/ranger/paladin damage in good faith. As such, please review and respond to the following simple questions so that we can all be discussing the same things. So we are comparing apples to apples. Here we go!

First a few questions about your OP. Here it is if you need to review:

Spoiler

Quartz, did you in the OP choose the "Dueling (Fighting) Style?"

Quartz, did you in the OP state "No feats?"

Quartz, did you in the OP assume Hunter's Mark is always active?

Quartz, do you agree that if you are using the Dueling Fighting Style you cannot use TWF to get a bonus action attack. Relevant rules:
Dueling Fighting Style

Spoiler

When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other Weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to Damage Rolls with that weapon.

; TWF (general)

Spoiler

When you take the Attack action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus Attack, unless that modifier is negative.

; Bonus Action

Spoiler

Various Class Features, Spells, and other Abilities let you take an additional action on Your Turn called a Bonus Action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a Bonus Action. You can take a Bonus Action only when a Special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take.
You can take only one Bonus Action on Your Turn, so you must choose which Bonus Actionto use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during Your Turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take Actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.

; TWF ranger fighting style

Spoiler

When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second Attack.

If no, please provide an example.

Quartz, do you agree that if you are using the Dueling Fighting Style, and you are not using feats, you cannot get a bonus action attack? If no, please provide an example assumes a ranger with Dueling Fighting Style and not feats.

Quartz, was it a mistake that you applied bonus damage to a Dueling Fighting Style ranger with no feats?

Quartz, would you like to revise the discussion to a ranger with the Two-Weapon Fighting Style?

That is all for now. Thank you for your time and help.

 

[Esker]

Meanwhile, more updates to my crazy spreadsheet of doom:

Added in estimates of precision attack and riposte. The spreadsheet will tell you for your build and level which maneuver yields the most expected damage, and automatically uses that one in the bottom line damage calculation. I think I'm probably giving a slightly rosy picture of riposte, since I assume the battlemaster can get enough opportunities to trigger it to use all their dice on that one maneuver, which may not be true depending on the number of combats and rounds you assume. But I didn't want to try to estimate how many enemies would be attacking you and what their attack bonuses would be, etc.

I also fixed an error in the Hunter's Mark/Hex section which was not deducting enough damage for the attacks you can't make due to bonus actions you have to use to cast/move the spell.

Remaining feature requests are, I think, trying to estimate concentration checks, and maybe some different Paladin subclasses? I might do something with Eldritch Knight / War Magic / Shadow Blade / Booming Blade. (I should probably add Booming Blade as a rogue option too)

 

[dave2008]

I think I'm probably giving a slightly rosy picture of riposte, since I assume the battlemaster can get enough opportunities to trigger it to use all their dice on that one maneuver, which may not be true depending on the number of combats and rounds you assume.

I think your probably fine. Riposte takes effect on any miss, and fighters tend to have decent AC. We can probably use AC 20 (plate + shield). So anything over 8 rounds per short rest is probably going to allow you to use all of your superiority dice. Also, it is possible for the BM to switch between maneuvers to get the rest of the superiority dice if it is not getting them all through reactions.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think your probably fine. Riposte takes effect on any miss, and fighters tend to have decent AC. We can probably use AC 20 (plate + shield). So anything over 8 rounds per short rest is probably going to allow you to use all of your superiority dice. Also, it is possible for the BM to switch between maneuvers to get the rest of the superiority dice if it is not getting them all through reactions.

But it does take your reaction. So you can only use one at most each round in combat. So your 9 combat scenario you would only be able to use 9 of 18 dice on the manuever

 

[Esker]

But it does take your reaction. So you can only use one at most each round in combat. So your 9 combat scenario you would only be able to use 9 of 18 dice on the manuever

I'm currently assuming 6 combats per day, 3 rounds each, so a total of 18 reactions per day. But I was already assuming some AoOs, so yeah, it's impossible to add enough reaction attacks to use all the dice on riposte.

 

[dave2008]

But it does take your reaction. So you can only use one at most each round in combat. So your 9 combat scenario you would only be able to use 9 of 18 dice on the manuever

Do you mean rounds? 9 combats would be approx. 18-27 rounds which gives plenty of opportunity for reactions w/ riposte.

 

[dave2008]

I'm currently assuming 6 combats per day, 3 rounds each, so a total of 18 reactions per day. But I was already assuming some AoOs, so yeah, it's impossible to add enough reaction attacks to use all the dice on riposte.

Personally, I think the important thing is whether or not all the maneuvers are used between short rests. If the come by reaction or bonus action is less important. Or am I missing something?