What is Greyhawk?

[Coroc]

Well, that's kinda my point. When you start with, say, Forgotten Realms, you can lean on the fact that your players probably have a decent knowledge of the setting. Or, at least it's far more likely that they know about elements of Forgotten Realms, than, say, Cerilia .

Which becomes something of an issue in play. You want to bring the setting to life, but, you also have to actually run the adventure, balance out what the players are doing, and juggle fifteen other balls. And, in the face of that, you have player apathy over the details of the setting itself because they are far more interested in their own characters and whatever the group is doing right now.

I mean, recently I started my Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign. I expressly told the group we would do character generation as a group. Session 0 starts and every single one of my players already had a character made, complete with background, NONE of them actually referencing the campaign. Drives me up the wall, but, hey, what are you going to do?

This is a problem I've been dealing with across many groups and ages. Trying to ground groups in a setting is HARD and often somewhat akin to nailing jello to a tree. I remember back when trying to get the group into Scarred Lands and having EXACTLY the same issues.

IME, most players do not care at all about settings. All the hoopla about blowing up settings and setting fidelity and "distinctness" of settings is all in the DM's head.

Agree, but here is some difference between FR and greyhawk that I personally see if a player wants to be more invested into a settings lore.
E.g. a player of a cleric wants some more background on his deity

FR: I can point him to FR wiki or whatever, but afterwards will eventually be bombarded by questions like
"What happened to the deity during spellplague /sundering/ the times when they became all mortal etc etc and how do you run your setting considering whatever has happened then?" If I dm my style with heavy restrictions / some housrules then I run into a the situation that I have to clear more things up in the end than if I had told hi mall the background stuff important for my version of the FR upfront.

Greyhawk: I can point the player to canonfire and he gets a bit more background and it fits even if I heavily houserule my greyhawk setting, put in a different tech level, and set the thing to year 579. There might be some contradictions but normally there are none.

Why is that so? Because FR is timeline heavy in what ever (official) lore is referring to what period. It might be that officially the deity for whom my player wants to play a cleric is dead during a certain period.
I Greyhawk the most likely background info my player will find is what kind of people are worshippers and in which regions, what are the colors, symbol etc. maybe some antagonist of the deity, but not much that is connected to the metaplot like in FR
e.g. like god xy killed your god during the spellplague and it was only after the resundering that she reappeared with lost Abeir returning yadda etc... (just makin up stuff here but that's the kind of issues which might occur)

 

[Hussar]

Agree, but here is some difference between FR and greyhawk that I personally see if a player wants to be more invested into a settings lore.
E.g. a player of a cleric wants some more background on his deity

FR: I can point him to FR wiki or whatever, but afterwards will eventually be bombarded by questions like
"What happened to the deity during spellplague /sundering/ the times when they became all mortal etc etc and how do you run your setting considering whatever has happened then?" If I dm my style with heavy restrictions / some housrules then I run into a the situation that I have to clear more things up in the end than if I had told hi mall the background stuff important for my version of the FR upfront.

Greyhawk: I can point the player to canonfire and he gets a bit more background and it fits even if I heavily houserule my greyhawk setting, put in a different tech level, and set the thing to year 579. There might be some contradictions but normally there are none.

Why is that so? Because FR is timeline heavy in what ever (official) lore is referring to what period. It might be that officially the deity for whom my player wants to play a cleric is dead during a certain period.
I Greyhawk the most likely background info my player will find is what kind of people are worshippers and in which regions, what are the colors, symbol etc. maybe some antagonist of the deity, but not much that is connected to the metaplot like in FR
e.g. like god xy killed your god during the spellplague and it was only after the resundering that she reappeared with lost Abeir returning yadda etc... (just makin up stuff here but that's the kind of issues which might occur)

See, the thing is, the likelihood of the player actually asking any of that is, IMO, close enough to zero that it can see it on a clear day. IME, the player chooses whatever god happens to fit the concept and that's about the long and the short of the work the player will then put into it. Spellplague? They'd actually have to care enough about the setting to ask questions.

AFAIC, these setting interested players are a mythological beast. Players just don't care.

 

[Zardnaar]

See, the thing is, the likelihood of the player actually asking any of that is, IMO, close enough to zero that it can see it on a clear day. IME, the player chooses whatever god happens to fit the concept and that's about the long and the short of the work the player will then put into it. Spellplague? They'd actually have to care enough about the setting to ask questions.

AFAIC, these setting interested players are a mythological beast. Players just don't care.

When I was young I remember one player. She liked that I put in the effort to design the world. She wanted an Amazonian type PC so I drew a island for her with the culture she wanted.

The other players didn't really care.

I'll vary the theme of the campaign based on player input. I'll be hard assed once that decision is made though.

Won't please everyone waste of time trying. If you can please most of the players most if the time while not hating it yourself it's the best case scenario.

 

[Coroc]

When I was young I remember one player. She liked that I put in the effort to design the world. She wanted an Amazonian type PC so I drew a island for her with the culture she wanted.

The other players didn't really care.

I'll vary the theme of the campaign based on player input. I'll be hard assed once that decision is made though.

Won't please everyone waste of time trying. If you can please most of the players most if the time while not hating it yourself it's the best case scenario.

Also true, but I have several players coming from / still /also playing the black eye (DSA) campaigns which is a german roleplaying system. And in this system lore and canon are much more influential than in D&D.

So they need some baselines sometimes to notice what is different and how their assumptions are met.
So every table is different, but at my table people partially are RP heavy.

I give you an example: In the OOTA campaign where I play as a player one of the other players portrays a Tyr priest of absolutely LG alignment that lately did cut of his little finger of the right hand to please his god. I thought to my self: "holy cow, is this yakuza?" I did not know this part of FR Lore that the most fanatic Tyr priests actually cut off their right hand to mirror their gods look, it is true it is official lore.

 

[S'mon]

See, the thing is, the likelihood of the player actually asking any of that is, IMO, close enough to zero that it can see it on a clear day. IME, the player chooses whatever god happens to fit the concept and that's about the long and the short of the work the player will then put into it. Spellplague? They'd actually have to care enough about the setting to ask questions.

I reference the Spellplague in my 1491 DR FR Red Hand of Doom/Elsir Vale game as the cause of the Fall of Rhestilor (which became the 4e Fall of Nerath), but none of the current players care. Whereas I have one player can only do a couple sessions weeks from now but she likes doing character background and has asked a lot of questions so I've had to explain eg Halruua is still destroyed IMC.

 

[Zardnaar]

Also true, but I have several players coming from / still /also playing the black eye (DSA) campaigns which is a german roleplaying system. And in this system lore and canon are much more influential than in D&D.

So they need some baselines sometimes to notice what is different and how their assumptions are met.
So every table is different, but at my table people partially are RP heavy.

I give you an example: In the OOTA campaign where I play as a player one of the other players portrays a Tyr priest of absolutely LG alignment that lately did cut of his little finger of the right hand to please his god. I thought to my self: "holy cow, is this yakuza?" I did not know this part of FR Lore that the most fanatic Tyr priests actually cut off their right hand to mirror their gods look, it is true it is official lore.

That's just details. FR died for me after the spellplague, used to care now I don't. Moved onto Golarion and Midgard.

 

[Hussar]

@Coroc - Must be nice. :'( Wish I had players that cared.

Hell, I just had a player lose his cool and walk out of our group and one of the bitches that he had was the fact that I actually DO take the time to embed my characters in the setting. Called me a spotlight hogging so and so.

It really is frustrating sometimes. All I can do is continue to lead the horses to water.

 

[Zardnaar]

Must be nice. :'(

Clarification?

 

[Coroc]

That's just details. FR died for me after the spellplague, used to care now I don't. Moved onto Golarion and Midgard.

If I would master a FR campaign I would use grey box as a baseline since I own it and quite like it and use the supplementing "ruins of xyz" sets. I would not use anything in the official timeline after that.

But my DM is using the new 5e material so no options there. When I do dm it is greyhawk anyway. I intend to DM DS for my group after that greyhawk campaign, hopefully.

 

[S'mon]

If I would master a FR campaign I would use grey box as a baseline since I own it and quite like it and use the supplementing "ruins of xyz" sets. I would not use anything in the official timeline after that.

But my DM is using the new 5e material so no options there. When I do dm it is greyhawk anyway. I intend to DM DS for my group after that greyhawk campaign, hopefully.

They did set up 5e FR so you can use the official adventures at any point in the 1e-5e timeline. This leads to quite a few oddly ageless NPCs!