D&D 5E Damage Multiple Option concept

[DND_Reborn]

Seems like the -5/+10 feats combined with the massive damage option would cover your needs pretty well.

I'd like to do something that wouldn't rely on a feat to create the effect, but the massive damage rule alone might work well. Also, modeling this after the LotR movies, Legolas would like have Sharpshooter, but Aragon and Gimli wouldn't benefit from GWM since they weren't using heavy weapons.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'd like to do something that wouldn't rely on a feat to create the effect,

Do something similar, take a penalty, instant-kill on a hit, only works if the target is much lower CR than your level.

Or you could lift the Truely Bad-ass rule from GURPS Cinematic, and the high level character just kills a mook for free, each round, just for being in the fight. (IIRC, it's been a couple decades)

And, of course save:1/2 AEs will already be erasing mooks en masse.

 

[aco175]

I wonder if the clerics turning ability has a chart that could work similar. At some point they destroy the undead instead of turning them. Maybe the fighter could kill the low-level monster instead of damaging them.

Should it work for all the PCs or just the melee ones. I know that Gandalf was kicking butt, but generally wizards are not known for one-shoting with melee weapons.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I wonder if the clerics turning ability has a chart that could work similar. At some point they destroy the undead instead of turning them. Maybe the fighter could kill the low-level monster instead of damaging them.

Should it work for all the PCs or just the melee ones. I know that Gandalf was kicking butt, but generally wizards are not known for one-shoting with melee weapons.

I thought of the cleric turning idea, but they go up to CR 4, which is higher than I was thinking for this idea with killing mooks.

I would also want a rule that worked for all classes. Considering most CR 0 or 1/8 monsters will die with a single hit (most often), only 1/4, 1/2, and CR 1 remain. I could do something like this:

Level: CR
5: 1/4
11: 1/2
17 : 1

But the more I look at the idea of using the massive damage rule, that might work just as easily. Most of the stuff I would consider mooks are 30 hp or less, and with the massive damage rule a hit of 15 would trigger it (not unreasonable at higher levels), and force a check to "kill" (reduce to 0 hp).

 

[delph]

I didn't read all the answers and posts but IMO it's too massive. Think about vice-versa version - if greater monster hit a player's character with this attack. I think It's better just add 1 (2,3,...) weapon damage dice. For some situation it's still same, but in further game almost everyone have some extra dmg dices, bonuses, etc...

just imagine when warcleric (or paladin, now not sure) give rogue +10 to attack and help action... and we can add it's an assassin with surprise strike... you can kill anything in one strike. That's not good.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I didn't read all the answers and posts but IMO it's too massive. Think about vice-versa version - if greater monster hit a player's character with this attack. I think It's better just add 1 (2,3,...) weapon damage dice. For some situation it's still same, but in further game almost everyone have some extra dmg dices, bonuses, etc...

just imagine when warcleric (or paladin, now not sure) give rogue +10 to attack and help action... and we can add it's an assassin with surprise strike... you can kill anything in one strike. That's not good.

Thanks for your input. Various combinations would make the initial concept too strong. I've decided the massive damage rule in the DMG will probably work for the effect I am after, but I'll have to try it out to know for certain.

 

[5ekyu]

There's an idea I've been toying with and I'm interested in some back and forth on it.

When you hit on an attack and your total attack roll is 10 or more than the target's AC, you deal double damage. If you hit by 15 or more, your damage is tripled. You do not roll additional dice, you simply multiple your base damage by the bonus multiple.

Ex. Behgord the Barbarian has a +9 attack bonus and is attacking an Ogre with AC 11. The player rolls a 17, for a total of 26. Since this is exactly 15 higher than the Ogre's AC, when the player rolls damage of 11 for Behgord, the damage is mulitplied by 3 to 33 points.

Later, Behgord is fighting an orc guard with AC 15. The player rolls another 17! Since the total is 26, which is 11 higher than the AC 15, the damage is doubled. When Behgord's player rolls 9 damage, it is doubled to 18 and the orc (only 15 hp) is killed.

If your attack resulted in a critical hit, you roll double dice for critical damage and then multiply it.

Now, what am I trying to accomplish with this idea?

I am looking for something so higher level characters can more easily defeat mooks with a good single hit. Think of something like LotR movies. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas all routinely defeat goblins and orcs with single strikes, but in 5E this is not easily represented as far as I see.

Saves failed by 10 or more could also result in higher damage, longer durations, etc.

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ASIDE:

FYI, my original idea was this:

If you hit on an attack, you make another attack roll. If you succeed, you roll again, and so on until you miss. For each "hit", you multiply your rolled damage. If the first attack was a critical, you double the dice and then multiply for an additional "hits."

Ex. Behgord only needs a 2 to hit the ogre, so will likely hit, and hit several times over before rolling a 1. If the total rolls that hit were, say 7, his damage if he rolled 11 would be 77, killing the ogre.

Now, this was TOO much by far, so I came up with the other version of 10-over and 15-over hits.

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Thoughts? While I like the idea, I am not certain at all of the execution of it...

In my last session the 8th level barbarian hit the nook andxsquished it in one swing.

How did I accomplish it? By selecting mooks for the mooks. It was a 15 hp hobgoblin. Bog standards out of the book, just a couple more hp within its range above average but not max. Most of the "mooks" went down in one swing from the big guys.

So, to me, if you are using extra rules to offset the fact that you have raised your "mook" bar by using 20 or higher quality mooks, it's like treating a self-inflicted wound.

That said, I have zero issues with replacing the normal crit rule with a "hit by 10" type rule, since it brings character skill into it.

But, just to be clear, a rule based on AC and success over is not really a "mook" focused ruled at all. It's an AC focused rule.

Looking at my wordgs vs hobgoblins with chain and shield vs sorcerer etc I see nominal linkage between AC and "mook" or level. Its not uncommon to see 5th to 9th level casters or beasts of lotsa HD with AC in the 12-14 or to see low end mooks in AC 15-16 with medium and shields.

So, as a rule claiming to target mooks, an AC based trigger is really more of an anti mage rule and an anti-beast rule- missing its target by... well lots.

So, again if just using mooks is not an option, I would suggest instead a more liberal massive damage rule that applies additional results when you do say more than half a creatures HP max in one hit. Perhaps its extra damage, perhaps it's a save for ko, etc.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think you need to be granular about your goals not only conceptually, but also in practice at the table. One of my main goals in using a mook rule of any kind is to help streamline combat against those enemies. Adding an extra roll is almost the opposite of what I'd be looking for. Nor would I be looking to add a mechanic that adds any number crunching to the encounter (i.e. multiplication). This is strictly personal preference of course, but I think I'd head in the direction of CR x at level x is one hit one kill and just leave it at that.

 

[DND_Reborn]

In my last session the 8th level barbarian hit the nook andxsquished it in one swing.

How did I accomplish it? By selecting mooks for the mooks. It was a 15 hp hobgoblin. Bog standards out of the book, just a couple more hp within its range above average but not max. Most of the "mooks" went down in one swing from the big guys.

So, to me, if you are using extra rules to offset the fact that you have raised your "mook" bar by using 20 or higher quality mooks, it's like treating a self-inflicted wound.

That said, I have zero issues with replacing the normal crit rule with a "hit by 10" type rule, since it brings character skill into it.

But, just to be clear, a rule based on AC and success over is not really a "mook" focused ruled at all. It's an AC focused rule.

Looking at my wordgs vs hobgoblins with chain and shield vs sorcerer etc I see nominal linkage between AC and "mook" or level. Its not uncommon to see 5th to 9th level casters or beasts of lotsa HD with AC in the 12-14 or to see low end mooks in AC 15-16 with medium and shields.

So, as a rule claiming to target mooks, an AC based trigger is really more of an anti mage rule and an anti-beast rule- missing its target by... well lots.

So, again if just using mooks is not an option, I would suggest instead a more liberal massive damage rule that applies additional results when you do say more than half a creatures HP max in one hit. Perhaps its extra damage, perhaps it's a save for ko, etc.

Thanks for the feedback and many of the issues you bring up have been addressed.

Yeah, the AC thing (as good as the idea could work) isn't the right approach.

For my main "tougher mook" I am looking at the standard 15 hp orc. If your 8th level barbarian is one-hitting 15 hp routinely, I have to think either you are rolling good damage or have other things factored in? I am thinking +5 STR, +3 rage, and greatsword avg of 7? That would give you an average of 15 hp, which means you are rolling average damage or better routinely.

Anyway, I've decided just to try the Massive Damage optional rule from the DMG. I think that will do it and is pretty much what you suggested (1/2 max hp in one hit and DC 15 CON save or drop).

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think you need to be granular about your goals not only conceptually, but also in practice at the table. One of my main goals in using a mook rule of any kind is to help streamline combat against those enemies. Adding an extra roll is almost the opposite of what I'd be looking for. Nor would I be looking to add a mechanic that adds any number crunching to the encounter (i.e. multiplication). This is strictly personal preference of course, but I think I'd head in the direction of CR x at level x is one hit one kill and just leave it at that.

True. Speed of play is always important IMO. I should edit my OP to say I am probably just going with the massive damge rule in the DMG to try out at first, but even coming up with a rule to remove the CON save involved would be nice.

Thanks for your input!