Sensitivity Writers. AKA: avoiding cultural appropriate in writing

[Dannyalcatraz]

Looking at some of the posts in this thread, and no. I don’t think everyone does know the difference.

Also, it’s not up to the person belonging to the majority who has a history or oppressing the minority to tell the minority what they can or can’t find offensive, or what is or isn’t cultural appropriation.

Yup.

In post #66, Bedrockgames actually questioned the authority of religious groups to declare what uses were permissible for things sacred within their faiths. If not them, then who?

And did somwhile complaining of “elitism”.

Outsiders in a free society can choose not to follow such an edict, but to question their right to make such a declaration is a complete denial of of their cultural validity, and an imposition of outsider’ wills over theirs. That’s pure elitism right there.

 

[Bedrockgames]

In post #66, Bedrockgames actually questioned the authority of religious groups to declare what uses were permissible for things sacred within their faiths. If not them, then who?

No, I didn't. I said they had the moral authority to decide what was permissible within their faiths, but not outside their faiths. A Christian doesn't have any moral authority to ask a non-Christian to stop using the melody from a Hymm with a new secular based song. If we start giving religions moral authority to export their taboos I think that is a huge problem.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And did somwhile complaining of “elitism”.

Why are you so dismissive of this. People who criticize cultural appropriation bring it up a lot for a reason. There is a huge disparity between people with high levels of education and those without. You can dismiss the concern but I think it is a valid one. And it is one that, if you can have this much empathy over culturally approaption, surely you should be able to extend that empathy toward people being less educated and less well off (because that is what elitism is about).

Also, I think it is worth pointing out, you are what, a lawyer? Umbran's a physicist. Would it really hurt you guys to consider that you are coming from a place where your life and education make it much easier for you to understand these concepts and use them than a lot of other people. I have told you guys myself countless times, even if I agreed with the concept, I would frankly find it incredibly hard to navigate. I don't think this side of the debate is getting attention it deserves

 

[Bedrockgames]

Outsiders in a free society can choose not to follow such an edict, but to question their right to make such a declaration is a complete denial of of their cultural validity, and an imposition of outsider’ wills over theirs. That’s pure elitism right there.

Okay, I never said people didn't have aright to say things. People can say whatever they want. What I said was, people don't have the moral authority to impose their religious beliefs on people outside their religion. Especially things like sacred taboos (which are often completely normal and mundane to folks in other cultures).

 

[Bedrockgames]

but to question their right to make such a declaration is a complete denial of of their cultural validity

This wasn't what I meant and I think it is very clear this isn't what I meant. I was speaking very conversationally. People can say whatever they want. The question is, if what their saying should have moral weight to it.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That’s pure elitism right there.

No, elitism is setting up a complex system of ettiquette around the otherwise very natural exchange of cultural information. All you have to do is look at the list of requirements people have expressed in their posts to see how elitist it is. It even goes beyond that because now there is the added expectation that people will hire consultants to help them navigate the waters of the marginalized culture. There is both an educational hurdle and a financial hurdle to the simple act of trying to explore outside ideas in the creative arts. And again, there is no strong evidence at all that even if they do all of this, it improves the world.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Taking a break from my non-engagement with you:

No, I didn't. I said they had the moral authority to decide what was permissible within their faiths, but not outside their faiths. A Christian doesn't have any moral authority to ask a non-Christian to stop using the melody from a Hymm with a new secular based song. If we start giving religions moral authority to export their taboos I think that is a huge problem.

Making that declaration? It’s called free speech. And, as I pointed out both then and now, I explicitly said you have the right to ignore such declarations in a free society.

But you posted this:

And does a Catholic or a Buddhist have the moral authority to tell a non-Catholic or a non-Buddhist to abide by their taboos when handling their music? I am not sure they do have that authority.

You questioned their authority to even speak to the issue, imposing your view over theirs. That is a negation of their rights to free speech and agency.

Would you tell someone who complained about theft of property that they don’t have the authority to ask for its return? Or to swear out a police report?

What you’re saying is: my right to engage in creative pursuits completely negates and overrides your right to even complain about my using your creations to do so. Not only can’t you complain, you don’t have any right to complain.

That is textbook elitism. That infantalizes those other cultures.

If that isn’t what you intended to post as your position, you might want to reconsider your choice of words.

Let’s start with “elitism”

 

[Bedrockgames]

Taking a break from my non-engagement with you:


Making that declaration? It’s called free speech. And, as I pointed out both then and now, I explicitly said you have the right to ignore such declarations in a free society.

I have explicitly stated they have the right to say that. My point is there is no moral authority behind it when it is said across religious lines. If someone from a belief systems says something to me from another belief system, it isn't going to have weight with me. I am not saying they cannot declare that. Or at least that isn't what I am intending here.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You questioned their authority to even speak to the issue, imposing your view over theirs. That is a negation of their rights to free speech and agency.

No I am not. I have said over and over again, they have the right say that. In my original post I was speaking very conversationally and what I intended to mean was their statement has no moral weight. But you are choosing to take my use of the word 'tell' literally when I've made clear it was a figure of speech.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What you’re saying is: my right to engage in creative pursuits completely negates and overrides your right to even complain about my using your creations to do so. Not only can’t you complain, you don’t have any right to complain.

Except that isn't what I am saying, and I keep telling you that isn't what I am saying, yet you persist in declaring this is what I am saying. I don't honestly know how to respond except that, this doesn't reflect what I believe. What I believe is people can say whatever they want. I don't believe that automatically means what they say has any moral authority behind it.