D&D 5E What are your biggest immersion breakers, rules wise?

[billd91]

Replace "fall down a mine shaft" with "get stomped by an ogre" or "run through with a spear" or "incinerated by a gout of lava". It really doesn't matter. Here's a quick recap: Clever listed his beef with fast HP recovery; you decided to criticize his comment with "but HP aren't meat points (except when they are!)"; I chimed in to point out how your critique wasn't helpful in this instance, and kind of misses the point.

Honestly, the root issue here is more along the lines of assuming too much when losing hit points. "Run through with a spear" isn't a particularly appropriate narration to anything but a killing blow. This has been an issue with D&D for a very long time - DMs (and players) like to narrate a certain amount of gore. But as characters gain advanced levels and hit points, the game has never really supported it.

This brings up a parallel question - how much of your immersion breaking is caused by the game's rules vs how much is brought to the table by you in the assumptions and perspectives you bring?

 

[Bardic Dave]

Honestly, the root issue here is more along the lines of assuming too much when losing hit points. "Run through with a spear" isn't a particularly appropriate narration to anything but a killing blow. This has been an issue with D&D for a very long time - DMs (and players) like to narrate a certain amount of gore. But as characters gain advanced levels and hit points, the game has never really supported it.

This brings up a parallel question - how much of your immersion breaking is caused by the game's rules vs how much is brought to the table by you in the assumptions and perspectives you bring?

I get what you're saying, but perfect narration for being reduced to 0 hp is essentially impossible, which was sort of my point. Take the mine shaft example (which incidentally I don't think is at all outlandish—abandoned mines and pit traps are two D&D staples). How are we supposed to know if the PC broke his neck until after death saves are rolled? Can we necessarily predict ahead of time that he will stabilize and get a long rest?

Or let's say you're reduced to 0 hp by a spear thrust. You may or may not bleed out and die. If you don't bleed out, you'll likely be back at full hp with just 8 hours of rest. Without knowing the outcome ahead of time, how do you narrate the blow in a satisfying way that won't break immersion? Answer: you can't, really. It's Schrödinger's spear thrust, which is basically what a few posters earlier in this thread were getting at.

EDIT: of course, the way I handle this at the table is I just don't worry about it too much. Illogical, outlandish, occasionally silly naughty word is just part of the game, and IMO it's better to just laugh it off (or even embrace it). There's no real way out of this conumdrum, so best to not dwell on it too much.

 

[Oofta]

I get what you're saying, but perfect narration for being reduced to 0 hp is essentially impossible, which was sort of my point. Take the mine shaft example (which incidentally I don't think is at all outlandish—abandoned mines and pit traps are two D&D staples). How are we supposed to know if the PC broke his neck until after death saves are rolled? Can we necessarily predict ahead of time that he will stabilize and get a long rest?

Or let's say you're reduced to 0 hp by a spear thrust. You may or may not bleed out and die. If you don't bleed out, you'll likely be back at full hp with just 8 hours of rest. Without knowing the outcome ahead of time, how do you narrate the blow in a satisfying way that won't break immersion? Answer: you can't, really. It's Schrödinger's spear thrust, which is actually something that a few posters earlier in this thread were getting at.

Unless the death is immediate from massive damage, the PC is simply unconscious. Potentially bleeding out but not "run through". Or the spear did go all the way through but much like the magic bullets on tv/movies it miraculously didn't hit any major organs (which given the body fat percentage of most actors would be tough).

I only use the lopped off heads or run through descriptions for monsters and NPCs. Hopefully before the player announces they were doing subdual damage.

 

[iserith]

EDIT: of course, the way I handle this at the table is I just don't worry about it too much. Illogical, outlandish, occasionally silly naughty word is just part of the game, and IMO it's better to just laugh it off (or even embrace it). There's no real way out of this conumdrum, so best to not dwell on it too much.

Yep. It's thinking about how things should be, rather than how they are, that breaks what many people call "immersion" in my view. To that end, whether something breaks immersion is largely within our own control. Knowing this, my immersion is unbreakable.

 

[Bardic Dave]

Unless the death is immediate from massive damage, the PC is simply unconscious. Potentially bleeding out but not "run through". Or the spear did go all the way through but much like the magic bullets on tv/movies it miraculously didn't hit any major organs (which given the body fat percentage of most actors would be tough).

I only use the lopped off heads or run through descriptions for monsters and NPCs. Hopefully before the player announces they were doing subdual damage.

Right, I get that, but you're still kind of dancing around the point. They get hit with a spear thrust. It's a serious blow. They're prone, unconscious, at 0 hp, making death saves. Obviously describing them as decapitated, impaled, gutted or anything similar would be inappropriate: they're not dead yet and they might yet live.

But we don't know if they'll die or live. With that in mind, how do you craft a perfect narration of the spear blow that takes into account the possibility that they might die or that they might be in tip-top shape with only 8 hours of rest? You can't really. It's an impossible feat. Your only real options are to leave things vague, to retcon descriptions with abandon, or to just not really worry about it too much. These solutions may or may not been satisfying for different people, depending on their preferences.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Oofta]

Right, I get that, but you're still kind of dancing around the point. They get hit with a spear thrust. It's a serious blow. They're prone, unconscious, at 0 hp, making death saves. Obviously describing them as decapitated, impaled, gutted or anything similar would be inappropriate: they're not dead yet and they might yet live.

But we don't know if they'll die or live. With that in mind, how do you craft a perfect narration of the spear blow that takes into account the possibility that they might die or that they might be in tip-top shape with only 8 hours of rest? You can't really. It's an impossible feat. Your only real options are to leave things vague, to retcon descriptions with abandon, or to just not really worry about it too much. These solutions may or may not been satisfying for different people, depending on their preferences.

I get that, and it's a matter of how real you want combat to be. Somebody getting shot/thrown across the room/injured badly enough to knock them unconscious is a really common trope in tv/movies.

As far as unconscious or dead, without a medicine check do you really know how bad most wounds are? A relatively minor head wound can gush what seems to be buckets of blood that will freak out a 10 year old and their mother without killing a person.

Anyway, everyone's entitled to their own immmersion breakers. Studded leather (and leather armor not being restrictive) is another example for me that someone else mentioned above. On the other hand I accept fire breathing lizard the size of a DC 10 that can fly.

 

[Undrave]

Nothing.

It's a game and games have rules. I don't know why it's such a big deal?

 

[Bardic Dave]

Somebody getting shot/thrown across the room/injured badly enough to knock them unconscious is a really common trope in tv/movies.

Totally, and to be honest that's often how I wind up doing it. I would file narrating a blow in this manner under "leaving things vague" which IMO is a sensible but tedious solution to the problem.

 

[CleverNickName]

Thats the actual rules. Those 6 arrows didnt pierce your skin. They likely glanced off your armor, or you dodged them at the last second, or deflected them away with your weapon (losing HP in the process).

Yep, and it's immersion-breaking for me. An arrow misses me but somehow pushes me closer to death? That's the part that I can't get past. So I just roll my eyes and ignore it as best I can.