Help Me Understand the GURPS Design Perspective

[5atbu]

Sounds to me like the OP has a weak GM who is starving the group of actionable knowledge and plot they can either create or interact with.

The GM needs to telegraph what is coming more, drop more blatant clues, and probably ask the players to telegraph what they want, what they imagine happening, so they can work together.

Not a GURPS problem.

Did you have a Session Zero

 

[Doug McCrae]

Not a GURPS problem.

It's not exclusively a GURPS problem but I think it's related to GURPS being a toolbox that demands a lot of initial setup work from the GM. What happens if the GM doesn't put that work in?

Also GURPS, unlike OD&D frex, lacks a default mode of play. OD&D tells the DM to build a dungeon stocked with monsters and treasure and provides random tables to make this easier. Once the top levels of the dungeon have been constructed the game is ready to be played.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The rpg-ers in real life I've known who were into GURPS liked it for its realism. They liked that combat was deadly and that players have to adopt real world tactics, like taking cover, to increase their PCs' chances of survival.

Some people I've known who were into the, quite similar, HERO System in its Champions form liked it because it rewarded system mastery. They probably also enjoyed system for its own sake. In other words, they didn't only engage deeply with the system because it helped them to win the game, but also because the activity of engaging with it was one they enjoyed. The social aspect of interacting with other gearheads was important too.

At the time, the early 90s, I recognised their approach to Champions as being different from my own. I was into Champions mostly because I liked comic book superheroes. They were into Champions because they liked the intricacy of the HERO System.

 

[John Dallman]

The rpg-ers in real life I've known who were into GURPS liked it for its realism. They liked that combat was deadly and that players have to adopt real world tactics, like taking cover, to increase their PCs' chances of survival.

Well, I like historical and semi-historical games, because of their excellent background material. Using "I've got tons of hit points, ignore the machine-gun fire!" tactics in those would feel utterly implausible.

This is a specific case of something general about GURPS, it does "human-scale" gaming easily and naturally. You can be highly competent at doing a few things without being an amazing all-rounder, and being superhuman is quite expensive in character points. Hero System, in contrast, has many similar mechanics, but its easy and natural thing is superhero action.

 

[Beleriphon]

There's a level of detail in GURPS seldom found elsewhere in rpg-ing. This, from 4e GURPS Low-Tech, is, I think, a good example of your concept of exception based design -

At TL3-4, glasses are held up to the eyes by the frame or a handle (a lorgnette design), occupying a hand, or are clamped to the nose (a pince-nez design). Pince-nez fall off on a roll of 12 or less on 3d if the wearer moves faster than a walk; they’re often attached to a chain.​

GURPS has a roll to not have your glasses fall off? Really?

 

[Retreater]

It's not exclusively a GURPS problem but I think it's related to GURPS being a toolbox that demands a lot of initial setup work from the GM. What happens if the GM doesn't put that work in?

Also GURPS, unlike OD&D frex, lacks a default mode of play. OD&D tells the DM to build a dungeon stocked with monsters and treasure and provides random tables to make this easier. Once the top levels of the dungeon have been constructed the game is ready to be played.

When I was running GURPS for the first time, I didn't know what to allow/disallow since I didn't have the system mastery. Couple that with being a GM who doesn't like to reign in players and has a time saying "no" in life in general, and it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Celebrim]

GURPS has a roll to not have your glasses fall off? Really?

It is pretty typical of GURPS, but it's also important to remember that it's one of the few systems you could be playing where it's actually a real possibility that your character is near/far sighted and wears glasses.

Where GURPS is strongest is if you are playing in a realistic, low or no magic, probably low tech setting. The number of skills available in the setting is manageable. The lethality of the weapons is manageable. Things are more or less at human scale. The math is more or less manageable and the setting is something that is within human ability as a GM to detail.

 

[lordabdul]

It's not exclusively a GURPS problem but I think it's related to GURPS being a toolbox that demands a lot of initial setup work from the GM. What happens if the GM doesn't put that work in?

What happens is that bad things happens. Similarly, bad things happen when using a narrative system with a GM who doesn't understand dramatic tension and letting player characters shine (it can lead to extreme railroading, or a "me vs. the players" syndrome). And other bad things happen if the GM tries to run investigation-based adventures without having put in the work to keep track of all the clues/leads/NPCs/events/etc. Or if the GM runs a horror game without making the effort to manage player expectations. Or a whole bunch of other scenarios where things can go bad if the GM doesn't make some extra effort. Being a GM is often hard.

GURPS has a roll to not have your glasses fall off? Really?

GURPS has an optional rule in an optional book about not having your glasses fall off. I expect 99.9% of people to ignore it unless it's important for a particular campaign or a particular scene (that's what optional rules are for! To be ignored until they're needed!).

Another example is GURPS Tactical Shooting (I think?) having rules for how breath control and focus affects your aiming when shooting a firearm. Again, in the vast majority of cases, you would ignore this, the same way you often ignore fatigue or encumbrance rules in a lot of game systems. However, those optional rules might come in handy in a game that's about playing snipers. Or in a wild-west game for gun duels. Or whatever.

When I was running GURPS for the first time, I didn't know what to allow/disallow since I didn't have the system mastery. Couple that with being a GM who doesn't like to reign in players and has a time saying "no" in life in general, and it was a recipe for disaster.

Oooooh yeah. I think too many people look at GURPS' book line-up and feel like they can't run a game with just the Basic Set (which isn't that big, it's about the same size as D&D's PA and DMG). The only extra book you might need these days is "How to be a GURPS GM" which explains in detail all the things we've been talking about in this thread. And yes, before you point it out, it's a common joke on the SJG forums that it's ironic to explain to people that they should use less GURPS books in their game... by telling them to buy one more GURPS book. You can see the author's pitch and links to reviews on the author's website.

 

[Beleriphon]

GURPS has an optional rule in an optional book about not having your glasses fall off. I expect 99.9% of people to ignore it unless it's important for a particular campaign or a particular scene (that's what optional rules are for! To be ignored until they're needed!).

I'm aware its optional, I'm just... not surprised actually that it exists. It just amuses me that it outright says if you aren't "walking" they might fall off. I get what they're going for here, if they fall off an the character needs glasses apply appropriate penalties or whatever from such and such a flaw.

I supposed my incredulous surprise is more amusement that is just confirms what I know about GURPS.

 

[Doug McCrae]

From How to Be a GURPS GM (2014) -