Warhammer lore

Mercador · Oct 27, 2019

From Wikipedia

Of the races that inhabit the world, Rick Priestley identified their origins as being based on British themes, the dwarfs are like blunt-spoken Yorkshire men, Elves having a touch of Southern England and received pronunciation about them, and the Orcs speaking with a working class London accent.

Ruin Explorer · Oct 27, 2019

Mercador said:
From Wikipedia

Yeah that tallies strongly with how they were in say 1991, though Orcs aren't quite cockneys but that's a whole other extremely lengthy discussion about Southern English working-class accents. Cockney is probably "close enough".

Beleriphon · Oct 27, 2019

Ruin Explorer said:
Yeah that tallies strongly with how they were in say 1991, though Orcs aren't quite cockneys but that's a whole other extremely lengthy discussion about Southern English working-class accents. Cockney is probably "close enough".

Don't forget Orcs have a heavy dose of football hooligan in their whole setup.

aramis erak · Oct 29, 2019

Mercador said:
Warp sounds much like W40K though...

The Warhammer world has been set in the 40K universe since release of 40K. They have never been truly separate.

Ruin Explorer · Oct 29, 2019

aramis erak said:
The Warhammer world has been set in the 40K universe since release of 40K. They have never been truly separate.

That's not true, I'm afraid.

You confusing early Warhammer Fantasy lore, and fan theories, with GW's official stance.

In early Warhammer lore, and early 40K lore (in the late 1980s), there were tons of links, and it was absolutely reasonable, even perhaps encouraged, to suppose that Warhammer Fantasy was perhaps a planet somewhere in 40K (it isn't where the Emperor is from though - that's our Earth in the far future), particularly the Eye of Chaos. This became a fan theory so common that it was basically accepted - this was in the 1990s.

However, eventually GW did come out with an official answer on this, and that is that Fantasy is not, explicitly and clearly not set in the 40K universe. They were very clear. There is no planet in the 40K universe that is the Warhammer Fantasy world, and it doesn't exist in the past of that universe either. GW did not that the Warp does link them, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Warhammer Fantasy a sort of "alternate reality" to 40K.

Even in the beginning, it was hinted and unclear, let's be clear on that, too. Certainly both influence each other deeply. There'd be no Dark Eldar and Necrons if the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings hadn't been so popular in WHFB, for example. But the official stance is that they are separate. Age of Sigmar only makes them more separate, even as even 40K elements seep into that.

Mercador · Oct 29, 2019

Good to know. In my head, it was clearly separated but I never asked myself why there was two universes with the same name, besides the year 40 000.

aramis erak · Oct 30, 2019

Ruin Explorer said:
That's not true, I'm afraid.

You confusing early Warhammer Fantasy lore, and fan theories, with GW's official stance.

In early Warhammer lore, and early 40K lore (in the late 1980s), there were tons of links, and it was absolutely reasonable, even perhaps encouraged, to suppose that Warhammer Fantasy was perhaps a planet somewhere in 40K (it isn't where the Emperor is from though - that's our Earth in the far future), particularly the Eye of Chaos. This became a fan theory so common that it was basically accepted - this was in the 1990s.

However, eventually GW did come out with an official answer on this, and that is that Fantasy is not, explicitly and clearly not set in the 40K universe. They were very clear. There is no planet in the 40K universe that is the Warhammer Fantasy world, and it doesn't exist in the past of that universe either. GW did not that the Warp does link them, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Warhammer Fantasy a sort of "alternate reality" to 40K.

Even in the beginning, it was hinted and unclear, let's be clear on that, too. Certainly both influence each other deeply. There'd be no Dark Eldar and Necrons if the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings hadn't been so popular in WHFB, for example. But the official stance is that they are separate. Age of Sigmar only makes them more separate, even as even 40K elements seep into that.

It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...

macd21 · Oct 30, 2019

aramis erak said:
It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...

And then GW came out and said ‘the Warhammer settings are separate.’ The two settings having the same gods and the like is irrelevant. Game of Thrones and the Forgotten Realms both have dragons, doesn’t make them the same setting.

GW left open the possibility that they areparallel universes that can be reached via the warp (and so the gods would be the same for both), but they very clearly wanted to divide the two settings. This was probably so they could state something in one setting without it impacting the other. For example, Slaanesh in 40k was born from the fall of the eldar civilization. This isn’t the case in Warhammer. Halflings and Ogres aren’t Ratlings and Ogryn.

Ruin Explorer · Oct 30, 2019

aramis erak said:
It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...

Sorry mate, I'm capable of distinguishing the present tense from the past tense.

aramis erak said:
The Warhammer world has been set in the 40K universe since release of 40K. They have never been truly separate.

That's the present* tense. You're saying that, right now, the Warhammer world is set in the 40K universe.

* = to be precise the present perfect progressive tense.

That's a straightforward falsehood, as I said.

Saying "REVISIONISM!!!!" like it's some sort of totemic word doesn't change the cold, hard, fact that GW themselves have explicitly stated that they are separate, and that the Warhammer world does not exist within 40K. I'm not sure what else there is to say. If this was in 2E 40K, as you suggest, that was in 1993. That's 26 years ago, and it means that 40K had only existed for 6 years when the decision was made. So for 26 out of 32 years, they've been separate - but you're claiming, in the present tense, that they aren't. Which is just not true.

Talking of not true, I've heard this "map" claim before - but literally no-one has ever been able to show me a scan or copy of the map. And Google and various people writing about the connections have never been able to find a copy either. So I'm going to say that doesn't actually exist.

As for "The Daemons are the same!!!" etc. well, buddy we've already been over this - GW says the Warp is the link. I'm not sure what you think that proves, given they were very clear.

If your argument is that "Back in the late 1980s, it's possible GW intended 40K to feature the Warhammer fantasy world!", then sure. Yeah. Possibly. But they changed their mind. Complaining about that and calling it "Revisionism!!!" is very silly, because this is Warhammer we're discussing. Everything in Warhammer has been revised countless times.

macd21 · Oct 30, 2019

My guess is that initially GW didn’t have any specific ‘truth’ in mind for the relationship between the two settings. Ask any two writers/designers at the time and you’d probably get three different answers. The Warhammer world was the past of 40k and Sigmar was the Emperor, or it’s a planet in 40k and Sigmar was a lost primarch, or Warhammer is a world trapped in the warp etc.

Then they say down and begin to work on setting bibles, and decided to settle the matter once and for all.