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Warhammer lore


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Mercador

Explorer
edit Nevermind the link to the Wiki, I see someone did that already. edit

One thing to watch out for as you dig into the Warhammer lore pile.....the current version of Warhammer Fantasy, from a tabletop game perspective, has a completely different setting than the "Old World" that is the setting of Total War. Just keep an eye out for the term "Age of Sigmar" as that indicates is the new lore and throws out ALL of the old stuff.
Why they make a division like that? They wanted to reboot the franchise?
 


reelo

Explorer
Pretty much that, yeah. Sales had been declining in the miniatures department, and reboot was an attempt to revitalise it.
Also, terms like "Orcs", "Vampire Counts", Empire", "High Elves", etc, can't be trademarked.
The "new" factions in AoS have all been completely re-imagined, and renamed to something that is completely their IP.
 


Blackrat

He Who Lurks Beyond The Veil
So when I play TWW1, it's the old worlds and TWW2, the new worlds?
No, Total War are both in the old setting, and I also think whfrpg never swapped to the new one either.

The miniatures game rebooted the setting, and that lore is now completely different from that of Total War and the rpg...
 

macd21

Adventurer
Yeah, to give some idea of the differences: the new setting is set after the gods of chaos got bored of messing around with the Warhammer world - so they destroyed it. And I don’t mean ‘everyone lives in a post-apocalyptic wasteland’ destroyed, I mean they broke it into chunks. Sigmar managed to save some parts of the world, along with some survivors. Some stuff happened, and now the game is set in the ‘mortal realms,’ chunks of reality in the warp.
 


More recently they’ve also been depicted with accents from northern England (possibly GoT influence?).

Edit: and weirdly, despite the Norse names and runes, they’re never depicted as sounding Norse.

SIGH.

This is not "recent". Dwarfs have been commonly depicted with Northern accents since the 1980s in Warhammer. They have never commonly, in actual GW-written Warhammer been depicted with Scots accents. So unless GRRM has a time-travel machine, no, it is neither new nor GoT influence. Part of this is probably because GW itself is from the North.

They're Norse Only In Aesthetic. Their culture isn't Norse, and they don't speak like Scandinavians of any era. Their names (and their names of their runes, as you mention), as part of the aesthetic, are a mixture of Norse and trad-Tolkien-dwarf which leans more Hebrew-inspired in the naming - and Warhammer reflects Tolkein more strongly in the Dwarf language, with stuff like "Khazukan kazakit ha!". Place names tend to lean more trad-Tolkien-dwarf.

I guarantee though, you go into a GW store in the UK in the 1990s and someone is doing voices for their Dwarfs, there is a 90% chance that they are doing a Northern accent (not a Scots one, which is entirely different), just like they're doing the shrieking voices of goblins, or the East End wideboy with a mouth full of rocks which is Orc. One of the most amazing things I've ever seen is that the people who did the Total War: Warhammer games pretty much precisely nailed exactly how all the voices were done by people back in say, 1991 (many but not all other Warhammer video games with voices have done a good job here - Fantasy tends to do better than 40K).
 
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The Warhammer world has been set in the 40K universe since release of 40K. They have never been truly separate.

That's not true, I'm afraid.

You confusing early Warhammer Fantasy lore, and fan theories, with GW's official stance.

In early Warhammer lore, and early 40K lore (in the late 1980s), there were tons of links, and it was absolutely reasonable, even perhaps encouraged, to suppose that Warhammer Fantasy was perhaps a planet somewhere in 40K (it isn't where the Emperor is from though - that's our Earth in the far future), particularly the Eye of Chaos. This became a fan theory so common that it was basically accepted - this was in the 1990s.

However, eventually GW did come out with an official answer on this, and that is that Fantasy is not, explicitly and clearly not set in the 40K universe. They were very clear. There is no planet in the 40K universe that is the Warhammer Fantasy world, and it doesn't exist in the past of that universe either. GW did not that the Warp does link them, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Warhammer Fantasy a sort of "alternate reality" to 40K.

Even in the beginning, it was hinted and unclear, let's be clear on that, too. Certainly both influence each other deeply. There'd be no Dark Eldar and Necrons if the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings hadn't been so popular in WHFB, for example. But the official stance is that they are separate. Age of Sigmar only makes them more separate, even as even 40K elements seep into that.
 

Mercador

Explorer
Good to know. In my head, it was clearly separated but I never asked myself why there was two universes with the same name, besides the year 40 000.
 

That's not true, I'm afraid.

You confusing early Warhammer Fantasy lore, and fan theories, with GW's official stance.

In early Warhammer lore, and early 40K lore (in the late 1980s), there were tons of links, and it was absolutely reasonable, even perhaps encouraged, to suppose that Warhammer Fantasy was perhaps a planet somewhere in 40K (it isn't where the Emperor is from though - that's our Earth in the far future), particularly the Eye of Chaos. This became a fan theory so common that it was basically accepted - this was in the 1990s.

However, eventually GW did come out with an official answer on this, and that is that Fantasy is not, explicitly and clearly not set in the 40K universe. They were very clear. There is no planet in the 40K universe that is the Warhammer Fantasy world, and it doesn't exist in the past of that universe either. GW did not that the Warp does link them, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Warhammer Fantasy a sort of "alternate reality" to 40K.

Even in the beginning, it was hinted and unclear, let's be clear on that, too. Certainly both influence each other deeply. There'd be no Dark Eldar and Necrons if the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings hadn't been so popular in WHFB, for example. But the official stance is that they are separate. Age of Sigmar only makes them more separate, even as even 40K elements seep into that.
It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...
 

macd21

Adventurer
It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...

And then GW came out and said ‘the Warhammer settings are separate.’ The two settings having the same gods and the like is irrelevant. Game of Thrones and the Forgotten Realms both have dragons, doesn’t make them the same setting.

GW left open the possibility that they areparallel universes that can be reached via the warp (and so the gods would be the same for both), but they very clearly wanted to divide the two settings. This was probably so they could state something in one setting without it impacting the other. For example, Slaanesh in 40k was born from the fall of the eldar civilization. This isn’t the case in Warhammer. Halflings and Ogres aren’t Ratlings and Ogryn.
 

It was on one of the maps released by GW. You're the one touting their revisionism in 2E.

Likewise, the demons were EXACTLY the same in 1E W40K - the demons, the gods, the lore...

Sorry mate, I'm capable of distinguishing the present tense from the past tense.

The Warhammer world has been set in the 40K universe since release of 40K. They have never been truly separate.

That's the present* tense. You're saying that, right now, the Warhammer world is set in the 40K universe.

* = to be precise the present perfect progressive tense.

That's a straightforward falsehood, as I said.

Saying "REVISIONISM!!!!" like it's some sort of totemic word doesn't change the cold, hard, fact that GW themselves have explicitly stated that they are separate, and that the Warhammer world does not exist within 40K. I'm not sure what else there is to say. If this was in 2E 40K, as you suggest, that was in 1993. That's 26 years ago, and it means that 40K had only existed for 6 years when the decision was made. So for 26 out of 32 years, they've been separate - but you're claiming, in the present tense, that they aren't. Which is just not true.

Talking of not true, I've heard this "map" claim before - but literally no-one has ever been able to show me a scan or copy of the map. And Google and various people writing about the connections have never been able to find a copy either. So I'm going to say that doesn't actually exist.

As for "The Daemons are the same!!!" etc. well, buddy we've already been over this - GW says the Warp is the link. I'm not sure what you think that proves, given they were very clear.

If your argument is that "Back in the late 1980s, it's possible GW intended 40K to feature the Warhammer fantasy world!", then sure. Yeah. Possibly. But they changed their mind. Complaining about that and calling it "Revisionism!!!" is very silly, because this is Warhammer we're discussing. Everything in Warhammer has been revised countless times.
 

macd21

Adventurer
My guess is that initially GW didn’t have any specific ‘truth’ in mind for the relationship between the two settings. Ask any two writers/designers at the time and you’d probably get three different answers. The Warhammer world was the past of 40k and Sigmar was the Emperor, or it’s a planet in 40k and Sigmar was a lost primarch, or Warhammer is a world trapped in the warp etc.

Then they say down and begin to work on setting bibles, and decided to settle the matter once and for all.
 

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