D&D 5E Skills and Ability Checks -- Perspective on Consistency vs DM Empowerment

[Garthanos]

You realize how much more work it is to balance something than to imbalance it right? Apparently not.

 

[5ekyu]

You realize how much more work it is to balance something than to imbalance it right? Apparently not.

In my view and my experience, balance and imbalance between characters in an actusl campaign are determined by how meaningful the abilities of those characters are to the challenges presrnted/chosen by the GM. So, really, there is not that much more effort either wsy in practice.

 

[Garthanos]

In my view and my experience, balance and imbalance between characters in an actusl campaign are determined by how meaningful the abilities of those characters are to the challenges presrnted/chosen by the GM. So, really, there is not that much more effort either wsy in practice.

And there is another active thread where people are complaining about DMs designing adventures for the specific characters abilities and people denying they do it, not sure what my opinion is on that.

Oh and I think DM fix it is a cop out

Trying to keep a functionally incompetent character alive let alone contributing I have seen be a royal pain Incompetence outside of combat at-least has less of that death problem I suppose.

Its far harder to figure out how good to allow those skill checks to make it balanced vs other abilities in a game with tons of subsystems all accomplishing overlapping things with differing resources than making it too powerful or not powerful enough.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think if I dm'd 5e and constantly allowed raw attribute use to exceed spell casting and step on class abilities toes at every turn in significant ways that would vastly impact play experience

For instance
Want to attack 4 times in a round at level 1 dex (athletics) check for me?

Ahh, see, this wouldn’t work in 5e, because it is not following the pattern of play established in the How to Play in the player’s handbook. The player is meant to describe what they want to do, and the DM is supposed to determine the outcome, calling for dice rolls when necessary to make that determination. A player asking to make 4 attacks is asking for a specific resolution method, rather than describing what they do and allowing the DM to determine the resolution method. The player should be describing what they want to accomplish and how (e.g. “I try to kill the orc with my sword”) and the DM should be the one adjudicating that (e.g. “he dies,” “you miss,” or “make an attack roll,” as the circumstances demand.)

 

[Garthanos]

I think if I dm'd 5e and constantly allowed raw attribute use to exceed spell casting and step on class abilities toes at every turn in significant ways that would vastly impact play experience

For instance
Want to attack as many times as possible in a round at level 1 how about a dex (athletics) check for 4? No need for level gating really if its a 20th level character ability I will increase the difficulty by 1 per 5 levels that ought to cover it. I mean I have seen videos of very young archers in videos perform 4 full draw accurate shots in 6 seconds so its realistic. And your character has probably been learning his or her trade since he was 8 years old that is realistic right? Reality is supposed to be the be all end all baseline right? We do not need to look at what other classes can do to allow an improvised action right?
The fighter maneuvers free every attack ? if you like just describe it to me and I like it no skill check (and maybe you can get an extra attribute bonus to those attacks too) otherwise a str,dex or charisma one depending on the maneuver. You can now do any monk movement enhancement with a simple check double your jumping distance no problem and fall damage free or deflect arrows with a raw dex check all good.

Because you know those resources and design choices arent meaningful or important to anyone.

Here is my description of how to make improvised action and attribute use obviously too powerful

 

[Garthanos]

Ahh, see, this wouldn’t work in 5e, because it is not following the pattern of play established in the How to Play in the player’s handbook. The player is meant to describe what they want to do, and the DM is supposed to determine the outcome, calling for dice rolls when necessary to make that determination.

I said they can do it not that they explicitly asked to do 4 attacks
I try to shoot him as many times as possible and the dm looks at people in real life shooting a bow at 1.6 seconds per shot and another throwing out a barrage of 9 or so arrows and it happens to duplicate an ability of another class but that isnt important... because reality is how the DM decides

Level doesnt exist in reality...

 

[Charlaquin]

I said they can do it not that they explicitly asked to do 4 attacks
I try to shoot him as many times as possible and the dm looks at people in real life shooting a bow at 1.6 seconds per shot and another throwing out a barrage of 9 or so arrows and it happens to duplicate an ability of another class but that isnt important... because reality is how the DM decides

Level doesnt exist in reality...

I mean... That’s a decision the DM could make, I guess. I don’t think it’s a good one, but

 

[Garthanos]

I mean... That’s a decision the DM could make, I guess. I don’t think it’s a good one, but

I know but that is because we are paying attention to various subsystems classes have and well defined abilities. Not ignoring them and pretending I can wing it based on things I know. are realistic When I decide its a bad choice I am honoring the rest of the resources and opportunity costs established in the character design and in play choices set forth. That means a level 1 character cannot/should not be able to usurp something may be doable with a combo of abilities at level 10 by a specialist class. Even if it is realistic.

 

[Charlaquin]

I know but that is because we are paying attention to various subsystems classes have and well defined abilities. Not ignoring them and pretending I can wing it based on things I know. are realistic When I decide its a bad choice I am honoring the rest of the resources and opportunity costs established in the character design and in play choices set forth. That means a level 1 character cannot/should not be able to usurp something may be doable with a combo of abilities at level 10 by a specialist class. Even if it is realistic.

Yes, you have successfully established that common sense and basic knowledge of the system and player abilities are essential DMing skills. In other exciting news, I read an article recently about water. Apparently it’s wet! Who knew?

 

[Garthanos]

Yes, you have successfully established that common sense and basic knowledge of the system and player abilities are essential DMing skills. I

Yup which system mechanic am I paying attention to when I decide what abilities can accomplish? the very things people were telling me to ignore right?

And you did catch the EVEN IF IT IS REALISTIC ....