D&D 5E Skills and Ability Checks -- Perspective on Consistency vs DM Empowerment

[Garthanos]

They aren't in competition with each other, it's a team game.

You know not actually being able to contribute or massively less able makes you a crappy team member

 

[Garthanos]

Fighters can do amazing things.

That BMX biker wheelie is really amazing ... not much like teleporting the party escape out of danger or even like preventing the entire party from falling in a pit of doom as a reaction.

 

[5ekyu]

The rules tell me how much plot coupon that wizard has to get things done no guessing at all... I am trying to line that up with other abilities which may overlap the function but which the game has neglected but apparently I am told not to do that.

The rules even tell me many things the non casters can do too some of those overlap with functions that seem possible by pure attribute checks ... but because of varying resources and similar, the ability to parallel anything is obscured.

The rules do not tell me how much plot coupon the wizard has to get things done, no guessing at all. The rules outline a good deal of the options they csn choose from but it says nothing about how much those intersect with what "needs to get done" in any given campaign. .

That wizard might have fireball, but the rules dont tell me or them how often and in how important cases they encounter fire resistant or fire vulnerable opponents. They dont say how often cures are more vital.

Even on more basic prep stuff, they do not say how often in a given game they find written spells to scribe beyond their free ones.

The value in play is determined by how much a thing gets you what is needed/wanted and that is not defined by the rules

 

[Sadras]

Right now I trust the vast majority of DMs to be bad at making balanced unguided/poorly guided on the fly decisions call me a cynic but it happened the first time I ever played in the 70s and till 5e decided it was a retro clone it had become less and less a problem as the game tools improved. Like my epically difficult 5e one man affecting feather fall... I expect that to happen all over the place and most people to just throw a spell at a problem.

I can admit that in my early days and well into my 20's I made many unguided/poor decisions on the fly.
However, these days, and especially with 5e that most of my checks lie within the 10-15 range with some esoteric lore reaching the 20 mark barring the odd exception. Only once did I use a DC 25, and that was to fuel an archaic teleportation circle between the Astral Planes of various Multiverses. Given the DC range provided in the published adventures which I have seen, I feel confident with my on the fly decisions.

Just to add, the PCs have just reached 11th level and we do have a cleric but the player does not abuse Guidance and out table does not have a bard.

Personally it would be nice to have a guide but I don't want that information in the player's hands for the exact reason @Li Shenron spelled out (annoying players). I can though always consult my 3.x books.

 

[Garthanos]

The rules do not tell me how much plot coupon the wizard has to get things done, no guessing at all. The rules outline a good deal of the options they csn choose from but it says nothing about how much those intersect with what "needs to get done" in any given campaign. .

Better warn the players its going to be an all diplomacy game so they can choose appropriately and the spell casters have skills too oh my things they can just choose and have happen combined with the awesome and eratic power to improvise or just be told no sounds like more versatility not less.

 

[Garthanos]

Given the DC range provided in the published adventures which I have seen

I never buy published adventures mostly out of habit they sucked badly and didnt sync with player character motivations bunch of dungeon crawling ick

 

[Garthanos]

Just to add, the PCs have just reached 11th level and we do have a cleric but the player does not abuse Guidance and out table does not have a bard.

One of the groups I have watched has a bard massive massive effectiveness. What is the abuse?

 

[Garthanos]

I can admit that in my early days and well into my 20's I made many unguided/poor decisions on the fly.
However, these days, and especially with 5e that most of my checks lie within the 10-15 range with some esoteric lore reaching the 20 mark barring the odd exception. my 3.x books.

Remember since nothing at all about what can be accomplished with an application of skillful ability those decisions include just plan saying yes or more likely form what i can tell saying no (ie like no its too late to help your ally and its not your turn now go back to rolling your attacks its what fighters know how to do its after all what the game actually says you can do) regardless of the range of DCs you pick based on what you consider "reality" or the not so common common sense.

 

[Sadras]

I never buy published adventures mostly out of habit they sucked badly and didnt sync with player character motivations bunch of dungeon crawling ick

Well the the DCs I have seen are in the 10-20 range. As for published adventures, they're there to be tailored for the table, whether you like to dungeon crawl in your Dungeons and Dragons game or not.

 

[Sadras]

One of the groups I have watched has a bard massive massive effectiveness. What is the abuse?

Right, I should have added the word perceived. Perceived abuse.
I'm not in the camp that has issues with Guidance and Bardic Inspiration.