Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2E's reception?

[teitan]

I was wrong. It was number two like a bullet though. TSR owned 50% of the market through their various brands and White Wolf 26%. No one else came close. Pathfinder outsold D&D when there wasn’t a new D&D product.

 

[JFranklin3000]

I was wrong. It was number two like a bullet though. TSR owned 50% of the market through their various brands and White Wolf 26%. No one else came close. Pathfinder outsold D&D when there wasn’t a new D&D product.

Sounds about what I remembered. I give Paizo credit for actually passing D&D no matter what the circumstances, especially since they were still a few last 4e products to release (but the end was coming and everyone knew). But I will always be surprised White Wolf didn't grab number one in early 1997

 

[teitan]

Well it could have still outsold AD&D because TSR had many, many brands at the time that accounts for some of their market dominance. This was the days of Spellfire, the trading cards, Dragon Dice, Dragonstrike etc.

 

[JFranklin3000]

Well it could have still outsold AD&D because TSR had many, many brands at the time that accounts for some of their market dominance. This was the days of Spellfire, the trading cards, Dragon Dice, Dragonstrike etc.

I was referring the bankruptcy, Vampire was at it's biggest and even had the TV show at the time. TSR wasn't producing any new product. It had to have gotten real close. I expect if it had gone on much longer they would have.

 

[JeffB]

that actually playing it is so much different than just reading the rules and gleaning what you may or may not like based off that..

Some of my absolute best adventures and games read like $hit, but at the table are magic.

e.g. Moldvay's edit of B3. Often seen as a watered down intro to D&D because the beginning was re-written to a programmed adventure sequence for complete new people. I've run it a half dozen times under several rule-sets and it has always taken some kind of weird turn that makes it very different and fun each time.

Unlike say The Sunless Citadel, which has some nice "eye candy" and a nostalgia factor for the 3E fans, but is very linear and pretty much runs the same no matter system or group.

 

[dave2008]

..., although I recognize the power of D&D's branding which means Paizo will probably never become a dominant player again.

I remember going to my FLGS during the 4e/PF1 days and a dad asking to purchase a D&D starter set and the employee directed him to the PF1 starter set, explaining that it was D&D. If feel like we all accepted PF1 as D&D. I don't think this would happen today. I personally feel PF2, though rooted in D&D, is its own game now, similar to 13th age. I think this is good in a lot of ways, but it is a harder marketing position I think.

 

[BryonD]

It's way too early to tell if PF2E has legs or not.

Agreed . That is my point. That and it having sold well at the start is not a revelation.

 

[BryonD]

I was not a fan of 4e, but it did really sell a lot of product. Every other RPG publisher in the world would have been ecstatic with the sales. 4e biggest problem was always that it was produce by Hasbro, and to print the number of products they wanted to the sales had to be way bigger then they ever would have been.

Shrug
The ship has sailed. We can use soft words like "a lot", but the fact is that the number of people playing "D&D" plummeted over the course of 4E. Not at all in an instant, and certainly not in the first six months. But it took a nosedive in player base and it recovered to levels unseen in any game (certainly easily including PF) in the subsequent 5e.

How much some mom&pop basement publisher would love to see 10% of D&D's worst sales doesn't really put a fair light on the topic.

 

[BryonD]

And I always like to note Paizo only passed D&D when it was already known that 4e was ending production.

That is not at all true. There we debates and debates on these very websites over whether or not all the data showing PF as #1 were valid or not. It was only after 5E was announced that those debates became moot and went away.

 

[billd91]

Sounds about what I remembered. I give Paizo credit for actually passing D&D no matter what the circumstances, especially since they were still a few last 4e products to release (but the end was coming and everyone knew). But I will always be surprised White Wolf didn't grab number one in early 1997

Internally, the writing might have been on the wall, but externally? I'm not so sure. Pathfinder tied with D&D 4 for the first time in Q3 of 2010 - right as Essentials was coming out (and right after the publication of the 4e Dark Sun materials). In hindsight, 4e was sputtering - but at the time it didn't appear to be dead. In fact, it seemed to be in the midst of a course correction to stave off further problems.