Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2E's reception?

[CapnZapp]

Yawn. 4E is so over.

And this is a thread about PF2...

 

[JeffB]

Yawn. 4E is so over.

So is PF1- but folks still like to talk about it

 

[JeffB]

I actually think had the done a few things, 4e probably would have been a bigger success:

1. Don't change the lore / cosmology by default. The could have offered as an alternate setting cosmology a year or two in (like eberron in 3e), but start out of the gate with the traditional.
2. Started with the essentials design, then introduce the standard 4e desing 2-3 years down the road. I believe essentials did address a lot of concerns people had with 4e, it was just to little to late.

For me

#1 would have been a HUGE turnoff . 4E's fresh take on cosmology was big hook for me as a DM. The Great Wheel, while traditional had been the default (and changed/broken over and over again)since a Strategic Review or very early issue of The Dragon. 30 some odd years of the TGW was enough for this old goat. 5E going back to the Great Wheel gets a big raspberry from me.

#2 I agree with as I prefer Essentials in nearly every way to the initial Core releases. 4E core needed another year of design/playtesting/feedback.

 

[dave2008]

#1 would have been a HUGE turnoff . 4E's fresh take on cosmology was big hook for me as a DM. The Great Wheel, while traditional had been the default (and changed/broken over and over again)since a Strategic Review or very early issue of The Dragon. 30 some odd years of the TGW was enough for this old goat. 5E going back to the Great Wheel gets a big raspberry from me.

I too love the 4e cosmology, the nentir vale, and the dawn war. In fact, I still use it in my 5e games. Additionally, it was one of the items that made me switch to 4e from 1e. However, I think I could have waited 2 yers +/- for it to be released as as separate setting and been just fine. And then possibly 4e and the Nentir Vale / Dawn War cosmology / setting could have had some real life to it.

Finally, I am fairly impressed with how well 5e has integrated the 4e cosmology. They actually did change the great wheel some to accept some of the 4e cosmology, which is not something I expected. Not to mention the Dawn War pantheon getting a place in the DMG. Of course, it doesn't matter to me as I have no issue with playing our game in the world-axis / dawn war / nentir vale cosmology

 

[BryonD]

I actually think had the done a few things, 4e probably would have been a bigger success:

1. Don't change the lore / cosmology by default. The could have offered as an alternate setting cosmology a year or two in (like eberron in 3e), but start out of the gate with the traditional.
2. Started with the essentials design, then introduce the standard 4e desing 2-3 years down the road. I believe essentials did address a lot of concerns people had with 4e, it was just to little to late.

There is no question that 4E found distinct ways to alienate a lot of "special interest gamers". And I don't see any way to quantify by irritation subtopic. So, sure.

But, people who did adopt 4E burned out on it. And I think that was because the flaws in the "fixed math" foundation become more apparent with continued play. I don't think there was a meaningful number of people who were annoyed at the cosmology, choose to play anyway, and then decided after 18 months that they just REALLY couldn't stand the cosmology. So I'm comfortable saying that the bulk of players who went away did so over mechanics. (And that gets tricky itself. You could have a regular group of 5, and 2 get sick of 4E, or even just one if they are the go-to GM, and the collective group will stop playing 4E.)

There is no real evidence to show that people liked essentials any more than pre-essentials. Maybe some did. Surely some did. But it is just speculation against the fact that it continued to decline.

And, keep in mind that there are still those who claim 4E needed no changes whatsoever, it was just the mean-spirited closed-minded nature of people like myself that sabotaged a wonderful game. But I still try to look at the big picture and what data we have. It may have addressed (some of) your concerns and not addressed (most of) my concerns. But neither of those matter, just tiny blips of data in the ocean of market forces. The current of that ocean did not change.

 

[BryonD]

So is PF1- but folks still like to talk about it

People kept talking about 3E after 4E came out, and that went pretty well.

 

[BryonD]

Yawn. 4E is so over.

And this is a thread about PF2...

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Wait. Is this a PF2 or 4E discussion thread? I jumped from page 1 of the comments to this page; and seems there has been some thread drift... Not that that's bad; but just trying to get my bearings.

 

[JeffB]

People kept talking about 3E after 4E came out, and that went pretty well.

Until PF2 came out

 

[JeffB]

Wait. Is this a PF2 or 4E discussion thread? I jumped from page 1 of the comments to this page; and seems there has been some thread drift... Not that that's bad; but just trying to get my bearings.

We-me particularly- are all over the place. feel free to get me back on track