Why Do You Hate An RPG System?

[prabe]

I'm struggling to understand why you don't characterize this mechanic as "counting successes". Yes, the dice are somewhat more complicated than coins (though right off the top of my head, I'm not sure how radically different the expected number of successes would be if they were coins), and yes you are actually adding up the number of successes that modify your base degree of success based on what you are testing, but it's still very much a dice pool mechanic that involves counting the number of successes and comparing it to a target number.

You're not counting successes. The dice are +1, 0, or -1; you're generating a sum, in a range of -4 to +4. Gets added to your score in the relevant ability and compared against the difficulty of the task. I'm not the biggest fan of FATE, but the dice are not any part of my problems with it.

 

[Blue]

FATE literally says that you should steal that thing, and invite the accompanying trouble, because you want the fate point.

This shows a complete misunderstanding of what FATE says. What you have there is "How do I take the mechancis of FATE and game the system". It is not AT ALL what FATE tells you to do.

FATE says you should steal that thing because that's what you decided your character should do. Just it's not you deciding just at that momement "what's the best for me to do in this exact second to 'win' this scene", it is instead "what have I decided is how I want this character to consistently act". In other words, you have set up RPable aspects of your character and they have mechanical support, both to your character's benefit and detriment.

 

[Arilyn]

"Player being bribed" is exactly what's happening here, with a soupcon of extortion in that it costs a Fate Point to refuse a Compel (and if you don't have a Fate Point, you can't refuse it).

The GM and players are working together to create a fun game. If you have written an aspect down on your character sheet that aspect is a big part of your character. If Willow's player doesn't want to have magic muck up her life then she'd take a different aspect. The compels are there to add drama and make your life interesting. I guess, technically you get paid for this but I have never felt bribed, extorted or manipulated while playing Fate. Not once. Paying to refuse a compel mirrors the willpower you need to resist that very strong part of your life. If it's an enemy showing up, you are paying to let GM know you really don't want to deal with this right now. Once again, the player chooses their aspects, so presumably you want those things in the game.

If this doesn't appeal to you, then obviously you don't like the Fate system. That's fine, but please don't make claims about extortion and broken rules.

 

[Beleriphon]

I'm struggling to understand why you don't characterize this mechanic as "counting successes". Yes, the dice are somewhat more complicated than coins (though right off the top of my head, I'm not sure how radically different the expected number of successes would be if they were coins), and yes you are actually adding up the number of successes that modify your base degree of success based on what you are testing, but it's still very much a dice pool mechanic that involves counting the number of successes and comparing it to a target number.

FATE works like this: -1,0,+1,+1 is 2+5, its entirely possible to get a four dice as -1 and still have a successful check because of bonuses and whatnot. I don't see as being that different than rolling a 3d6, tallying a result and getting 14 and then adding a bonus. FATE specifically uses all of the dice to calculate results. It's a little weird but the object is very much not counting success, it is totaling the results of four six sided dice with a somewhat unusual numbering scheme. It isn't the same as something Storyteller where you roll Nd10 and count the dice with results over, IIRC, seven and comparing those to a target number.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

This shows a complete misunderstanding of what FATE says. What you have there is "How do I take the mechancis of FATE and game the system". It is not AT ALL what FATE tells you to do.

I don't mean "literally" in the figurative sense. I mean that it literally says exactly that.

If you want, you can pay a fate point to prevent the complication from happening, but we don’t recommend you do that very often— you’ll probably need that fate point later,

 

[Beleriphon]

I don't mean "literally" in the figurative sense. I mean that it literally says exactly that.

Also know as if you wanted your Trouble to never be Trouble, why'd you pick it? It's like playing a rogue in D&D and investing in picking locks, and then deciding you'd rather not when presented the option.

 

[prabe]

Also know as if you wanted your Trouble to never be Trouble, why'd you pick it? It's like playing a rogue in D&D and investing in picking locks, and then deciding you'd rather not when presented the option.

Arguably, though, in D&D the DM can't make you pick the lock, which is possible in FATE.

 

[MichaelSomething]

So people don't want rules that touch role-playing at all? To just ignore it and let people freeform?

But didn't lots of people hate 4E because it was "just a mini skirmish game" that also had rules that ignored role-playing?

 

[hawkeyefan]

So people don't want rules that touch role-playing at all? To just ignore it and let people freeform?

But didn't lots of people hate 4E because it was "just a mini skirmish game" that also had rules that ignored role-playing?

“But my character is mine! MINE!”

Some folks have an oddly specific idea of what role-playing means, and any deviation from that is therefore not role-playing.

Despite the fact that nearly all games possess some elements that can dictate PC actions....but those ones are okay, for reasons.

 

[Blue]

"Player being bribed" is exactly what's happening here, with a soupcon of extortion in that it costs a Fate Point to refuse a Compel (and if you don't have a Fate Point, you can't refuse it).

As long as you describe XP and loot in D&D as a player being bribed. Because it's the same thing. You're getting rewarded for playing the character like you intentional said you want to play the character, instead of because you killed a creature.