D&D General No Fixed Location -- dynamically rearranging items, monsters, and other game elements in the interests of storytelling

[HarbingerX]

There is no clue that the orcs are going to attack town A unless you give it to the players.

Well the clue is there, but their choices led them to no find it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Schrodinger's GMing is fine imo. I've done it myself many times. Static encounters, which are what they are no matter what the PCs do, are also fine. It's just a matter of taste.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah, I get your definition of meaningful choice.

That's wonderful. Maybe the person I quoted gets that too.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well the clue is there, but their choices led them to no find it.

If they did not find it then it really isn't.

 

[NotAYakk]

If they did not find it then it really isn't.

The clue can be there even if the players didn't find it.

Again, suppose the attack was because the chief's ex-wife was married to the baron, and there are a bunch of clues that an attack attached to that is coming.

Seeing some well-dressed half-orcs isn't a "clue" that the orcs are going to attack, but it is a clue to the clue. They might not investigate those well dressed orcs (as a choice), they might not talk to the nobility, they might not do many things. But background details influenced by the fact that the orcs are about to attack can be visible and change the rest of the world building in town A.

That world building can be explained away in other ways if needed. But the clue can imply things that are clues to the clue, or clues to the clue to the clue, and saying that the clue itself "didn't exist" because only derivative facts about it where exposed to the PCs is one choice.

I think you can go too far in either direction; but that world building from the perspective of game-reality-independent-of-PCs causes the world to behave differently than game-reality-as-shadow-play-for-PCs.

 

[Doug McCrae]

in my experience DMs tend to err MUCH too far in favor of making their hidden features harder to find.

Even worse is when they make the adventure too hard to find.

 

[iserith]

Even worse is when they make the adventure too hard to find.

Gotta awkwardly interview that chain of quirky, cagey NPCs before adventuring or you're just not RPin'!

 

[FrogReaver]

So before this devolves into quibbling back and forth -

The DM can run the game 2 ways (maybe more but those don't seem relevant for this discussion).

1. The only fiction that is "real" is the players
2. Fiction can be established independently of players

Here's the deal though, the only person that is able to get any satisfaction of a DM independently establishing fiction is the DM himself. The players won't know it. To them the only "true" fiction is what you relay to them in game.

 

[FrogReaver]

Even worse is when they make the adventure too hard to find.

It could be argued that an adventure is the greatest treasure to find

 

[NotAYakk]

It could be argued that an adventure is the greatest treasure to find

No, that is the friendship you make along the way.