Bronze Age Fantasy

[Aldarc]

I will also say that I'm not particularly interested in fantasy bronze age settings that directly plop fantasy into the real world, such as in Britain, Greece, or Babylon. This is why settings such as Glorantha or Tekumel hold greater appeal. However, while Glorantha and Tekumel are both absolutely beautiful worlds, I find that the scope of the lore and detail to be a little too heavy for my tastes, much in the same vein as to why I would never consider running a game in Forgotten Realms, Star Wars Universe, or Middle Earth.

 

[Bilharzia]

I'm not particularly interested in ...

Anything? You don't like entirely fictional bronze age settings, and you don't like mythological historically-based bronze age settings. Okay.

 

[Aldarc]

Anything? You don't like entirely fictional bronze age settings, and you don't like mythological historically-based bronze age settings. Okay.

Wow. That sort of false dilemma seems like an extreme conclusion based on what I said.

I said that I don't necessarily want a Bronze Age Fantasy setting - or any fantasy campaign for that matter - that takes place in our world (but with magic). I don't like my knowledge of real world history (or how history is presented in such settings) getting in the way of my fantasy. I also said that I don't typically like running settings that are overflowing with lore, such as Glorantha, Tekumel, or Forgotten Realms. So it is simply false to say that I "don't like entirely fictional bronze age settings" on that basis. How can you not see that there is a lot of settings that could exist between these two positions, which are also not diametrically opposed either?

 

[Bilharzia]

I don't know, perhaps you could suggest some?

 

[hawkeyefan]

I will admit that one of my biggest turn-offs with Agon - as I have looked into it - is the central idea of players competing with other players for glory.

I get that. I’m not entirely sure how I feel about it myself, or how it will play out once we actually play. But, I do feel that it’s thematically appropriate given the importance placed on personal glory among the Greek heroes. Even when they were working together, they were still competing.

As long as the cooperation element isn’t totally overshadowed by the competitive, then I think I’ll be okay. In the online play that I’ve seen, it seems to work, so I’m hopeful.

 

[aramis erak]

Anything? You don't like entirely fictional bronze age settings, and you don't like mythological historically-based bronze age settings. Okay.

They're implying that the two big ones are almost as bad as real world with fantasy added, due to too large a corpus.

And for that, well, the successful ones always get there.

I still say RQ is the way to go - just don't use Glorantha, but a map of your own design.

Orkworld is also technically Bronze Age - I can't recommend the mechanics, but the setting? awesome fantasy world, but you may need to tone down both elves and dwarves to use it...

 

[Bilharzia]

They're implying that the two big ones are almost as bad as real world with fantasy added, due to too large a corpus.

er, yeah, I understood what was written. Personally I find it difficult to separate the historical Bronze Age I'm mostly familiar with (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Near East) from the idea of a Bronze Age setting independent of the specific historical context, with the exception of Glorantha, and that doesn't quite fit.

Any system and/or setting for a Bronze Age game would have to represent the social structures and beliefs as much as anything else.

 

[aramis erak]

er, yeah, I understood what was written. Personally I find it difficult to separate the historical Bronze Age I'm mostly familiar with (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Near East) from the idea of a Bronze Age setting independent of the specific historical context, with the exception of Glorantha, and that doesn't quite fit.

Any system and/or setting for a Bronze Age game would have to represent the social structures and beliefs as much as anything else.

The problem is deeper than that — for some.

There are multiple elements

1. the technology - the rules should represent the tech base and its flaws. Truth be told, this is going to be the hard part for a designer
2. The environment -
   1. people forget that the climate in the bronze age was slightly different slightly warmer.
   2. the land was much more wild.
3. The governments
   1. Smaller scale - often city states.
   2. more authoritarian
   3. Usually integrated with state religions
4. The religions
   1. usually polytheistic
   2. usually strongly tied to government (even when not the government itself)
   3. often using idols
   4. frequently using animal sacrifice. Occasionally, human sacrifice.
   5. Believed to be capable of magic by the faithful

Good luck getting all the players on with all 4 elements.

 

[Aldarc]

er, yeah, I understood what was written. Personally I find it difficult to separate the historical Bronze Age I'm mostly familiar with (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Near East) from the idea of a Bronze Age setting independent of the specific historical context, with the exception of Glorantha, and that doesn't quite fit.

Personally, I don't find it as to difficult to separate the historical Bronze Age I'm mostly familiar with as part of my professional studies (the Levant, Mesopotamia, Egypt) from the idea of a Bronze Age setting independent of our specific historical context as you would seemingly imagine. Otherwise genre adaptations of human history would be impossible, and yet such settings exist aplenty. The trick is understanding what sort of societal organization was present (e.g., city-states, class-based society, interlocked international trade, palace economies, the cults, etc.), the worldviews, etc. and whatever key features that the Setting Creator would emphasize as part of the setting.

Any system and/or setting for a Bronze Age game would have to represent the social structures and beliefs as much as anything else.

Sure, but it is hardly as if it is "Real World Bronze Age with Magic or Bust" here or, for that matter, "BRP or Bust" either. I personally find this mindset so weird. It's about like insisting that D&D is the ONLY way to play medieval European fantasy.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

The problem is deeper than that — for some.

There are multiple elements

1. the technology - the rules should represent the tech base and its flaws. Truth be told, this is going to be the hard part for a designer
2. The environment -
   1. people forget that the climate in the bronze age was slightly different slightly warmer.
   2. the land was much more wild.
3. The governments
   1. Smaller scale - often city states.
   2. more authoritarian
   3. Usually integrated with state religions
4. The religions
   1. usually polytheistic
   2. usually strongly tied to government (even when not the government itself)
   3. often using idols
   4. frequently using animal sacrifice. Occasionally, human sacrifice.
   5. Believed to be capable of magic by the faithful

Good luck getting all the players on with all 4 elements.

All of this.

I would add that cities tended to be cultic centers devoted to a particular patron deity, rulers were usually cruel and arbitrary, and having laws was a novelty. There was lots of nomadic and semi-nomadic pastoralism, and group identities formed around itinerant crafts. Literacy was confined to temple and palace functionaries (who were usually the same people), or absent entirely.

But I imagine what most people envisage when they mean "Bronze Age" is the idealized, retrojected "Heroic Age" of Homeric and Biblical literature; in the same way that when people imagine "Arthurian" they are thinking of medieval romances, not the realities of 5th-Century sub-Roman Britain.