D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

It's not battle magic. That's the point.

Long term offense casting a ritual which barrages a castle periodically? I could easily see adding trap rituals. Just as one could have traps as a martial practice construct.

An ability to enchant your allies weapons with an all day long duration?
So a sympathy of (energy type) ritual that allowed your allies to make all their weapons deliver an energy type of damage as an option. Would that count as weak long term offense.

Ulterior motive think about new rituals because I wanted an Arcane Power II that took them further. @Minigiant

 

[Weiley31]

You know what else is really samesey?

Rolling dat bloody dice!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I disagree. I'll list several 5e spells I consider very different:

Firebolt
Silent Image
Plane Shift
Bless
Goodberry
Resurrection
Arcane Eye
Clone
Mordinkainen's Magnificent Mansion
Eternalness
Fabricate
Modify Memory

These types of spells are why I wonder 4e power more samey than 5e spells. I would liked to have seen more 4e utility powers that did things like those.

Rituals exist. Ignoring them or claiming they don’t count is disingenuous.

 

[Minigiant]

Long term offense casting a ritual which barrages a castle periodically? I could easily see adding trap rituals. Just as one could have traps as a martial practice construct.

I see that as more Utility because the target of "attack rituals" have to be defeated already, willing, or inanimate. There no real defense against them nor combat. If you have the components and the target lets you finish, the effect happens.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm assuming you're referring to me as that "someone". Your assertion is "laughably, ridiculously, factually, incorrect". I never said they were the same, I said I felt they were both supernatural abilities.

What is the same is that both follow the same cookie-cutter pattern of AEDU pattern with no flexibility. That if you strip away the fluff and the "dagger" as an implement it could have been attached to just about any class as just another way to do an area burst attack that is in no way unique or iconic to the image I have of a rogue.

I have never said the powers were the same. But at this point, I don't expect an honest and fair discussion.

Bad assumption.

 

[Garthanos]

I see that as more Utility because the target of "attack rituals" have to be defeated already, willing, or inanimate.

Create minion/swarm rituals ... Martial Troops practices are already on my list.

There was a power where by defeating an enemy in combat you can convert the adversary to a minion on your side at least until they go down. Not a ritual a daily but that defeated already clause reminded me of it.

 

[Garthanos]

Rituals exist. Ignoring them or claiming they don’t count is disingenuous.

And oh we did not use them so magic has way too little utility is user error...

 

[Teemu]

I disagree. I'll list several 5e spells I consider very different:

Firebolt
Silent Image
Plane Shift
Bless
Goodberry
Resurrection
Arcane Eye
Clone
Mordinkainen's Magnificent Mansion
Eternalness
Fabricate
Modify Memory

These types of spells are why I wonder 4e power more samey than 5e spells. I would liked to have seen more 4e utility powers that did things like those.

Fire bolt = 4e fiery blast.
Silent image is in 4e.
Plane shift (planar travel magic) is in 4e.
Bless is in 4e.
Goodberry is in 4e.
Resurrection is in 4e.
Arcane eye exists in various forms in 4e.
Clone is not in 4e.
Mordenkainen's Mansion is in 4e.
Etherealness's function exists in 4e.
Fabricate's function exists in 4e.
Modify memory (different name) exists in 4e.

Are we next going to go through all the powers and effects 4e has that 5e doesn't?

 

[Garthanos]

@Minigiant - Some rituals could also be cast from scrolls fast enough to enable Quick Utility. So this I call Quick utility being existent but not an emphasis.

 

[Minigiant]

Create minion/swarm rituals ... Martial Troops practices are already on my list.

There was a power where by defeating an enemy in combat you can convert the adversary to a minion on your side at least until they go down. Not a ritual a daily but that defeated already clause reminded me of it.

Swarm and minions summoning are still more utility than offense. It's more like a summoning a moving trap.

Powers still only have a duration of an encounter or five minutes.