D&D 5E Balance Query Re: Homebrew Weapons

[Cap'n Kobold]

Right, but an estoc is specialized for it, while a longsword is not. And what it’s specialized for is pinpoint precision, which to my mind qualifies it for finesse by 5e standards.

I mean, if I had my druthers, all weapons would use dex for to-hit and strength for damage, but that’s not how 5e does it.

Gotcha. Not saying I am of the same opinion, but I understand where you're coming from.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is entirely your prerogative.
You specifically asked about potential balance issues. You aren't required to take the help we try to offer seriously.

You asked me why I found the Finesse and Versatile properties incongruent when combined in a weapon. I told you, with reference to the mechanics to explain why it feels that way to me.
You asked me for my opinion. You're allowed to have a different one.

Sure, and I'm just saying I don't think that makes sense. The two properties don't interfere. Finesse is about precision, as well, but even ignoring that, grace and agility aren't precluded by two-handed use.

OK. I can break it down further. What part did you find incongruent?
Characterisation of D&D longswords as not Finesse weapons? My analysis of the katana's features?
My opinion as to how a sword with a curved handle would feel to actually use?
Thinking that from the description, it sounds like some weapons already covered by the longsword category?

tbh, there's something about your posts here that strike me as trying to win something. I'm thus wary of engagement.

But, in short, the whole thing. And I've using swords with curved handles. They don't operate as you describe.
But I also don't care, as I said very clearly in the OP about historical examples or particularly about realism. These weapons fit the fiction I'm operating with, and thus my only concern is balance.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The point isn't to make a given mechanical thing, the point is that in the fiction there is a thing, that should be finesse, that is a throwable axe, and that I'd like to represent that mechanically, without just changing the handaxe itself to be simply the best simple weapon.

I mean its your game, and you're not really concerned with character balance. You could simply allow Dex to be used with any weapon (or maybe any non-Heavy weapon).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I mean its your game, and you're not really concerned with character balance. You could simply allow Dex to be used with any weapon (or maybe any non-Heavy weapon).

lol I don't agree with you about dex and finesse, so I'm not concerned about character balance. Sure, bud.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Sure, and I'm just saying I don't think that makes sense. The two properties don't interfere. Finesse is about precision, as well, but even ignoring that, grace and agility aren't precluded by two-handed use.

Hmm. Not being able to use the Finesse property with a weapon in two hands was not what I was trying to say. Just that I don't see how it would get a benefit from the versatility property while doing so.

tbh, there's something about your posts here that strike me as trying to win something. I'm thus wary of engagement.

I obviously did not explain something correctly, and that bothers me. So I try to make amends.
Disagreement is not an issue, but when something that makes sense in my head is not understandable to others, that worries me.

But, in short, the whole thing. And I've using swords with curved handles. They don't operate as you describe.
But I also don't care, as I said very clearly in the OP about historical examples or particularly about realism. These weapons fit the fiction I'm operating with, and thus my only concern is balance.

Well, hopefully myself, Charlaquin, and the other posters in the thread have been able to help on that score.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't know why you're going so hard on this when I already gave up, in a reply to you, on the axe.

Like, just drop it. The solution is either to give up, or to rebalance the weapon table to allow for what it actually should be. I don't have time to rebalance the weapon table right now, so I'm just going to ignore the axe for now. Which I've already said.

Fair enough, my apologies.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Yeah, sorry, I'm never going to take this stance seriously. I will never design anything for powergamers or to foil them, and that is the only lense through which I'd care about this argument. Most players just use the stats that make sense for the concept, and pick the weapons that fill out that concept best, as allowed by the system.

lol I don't agree with you about dex and finesse, so I'm not concerned about character balance. Sure, bud.

OK. Can you explain a bit more about what sort of balance you are concerned about please?

Balance within the weapon table rather than between characters?
Character balance but not to the extent of adjusting for potential optimisation?

 

[Xeviat]

I think of versatile and finesse as 0.5 features. Rapier and Longsword are identical except for that difference.

This, a 1d6, versatile 1d8, finesse weapon would be fine with me. You're giving up a hand over the rapier to finesse, so I don't see the big deal.

But, if I had been the game designers, I would have tried to make Str and Dex important to all weapons. Game balance just is built around 1 offensive stat. Str characters have access to heavy armor (medium armor should have been buffed).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

OK. Can you explain a bit more about what sort of balance you are concerned about please?

Balance within the weapon table rather than between characters?
Character balance but not to the extent of adjusting for potential optimisation?

IMO, balance matters in the average case. Trying to account for power gamers isn’t balance, it’s worrying about an edge case that doesn’t matter.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Hmm. Not being able to use the Finesse property with a weapon in two hands was not what I was trying to say. Just that I don't see how it would get a benefit from the versatility property while doing so.

I obviously did not explain something correctly, and that bothers me. So I try to make amends.
Disagreement is not an issue, but when something that makes sense in my head is not understandable to others, that worries me.

Well, hopefully myself, Charlaquin, and the other posters in the thread have been able to help on that score.

Fair enough.

I wasn’t saying that, either, regarding finesse and versatile, btw. I was simply saying that I don’t see any conflict between the two properties and what they represent.

And yeah, I am pretty much set now, thanks to the replies in this thread. I’ll figure out the axe someday.

I may even decide that a “superior” weapon that is campaign setting specific and only normally available to a single race that is itself kinda underpowered (Dragonborn), is fine.

But if not, I’ll just leave it as flavor, and move on, until I have time to properly work out properties for weapons that are good at tripping and binding weapons and limbs and shields, and a couple other things, and rebalance the table.