Peril - wherein RangerWickett reinvents the wheel

[Morrus]

The way I see it PF2 attempts (and gloriously fails) to provide a complete system for everything. 670 pages. Ugh.

Its one page shorter than D&D 5E. The only difference dis 5E split the same content into two books.

 

[ruemere]

Its one page shorter than D&D 5E. The only difference dis 5E split the same content into two books.

5E is a different beast, haven't read it (aside from some skimming). I consider it to be a step backwards for different reasons (mostly to do with pandering to lowest common denominator) - it's not bad, it's just a repackaged nostalgia with a few modern parts retrofitted plus excellent graphic design.

Back to PF2. I expected a modern design supporting classic D&D3 concepts (AD&D is about cheating grim probabilities, D&D3 loves its wobbly heroic balance). Instead we have a Eclipse (Eclipse as in that Java IDE) version of D&D4 with a huge bow toward control freaks (so many little bits) and software devs (no, humans don't flip books pages the way you click hyperlinks). I stopped paying attention at some point during playtest when I also realized that some legendary skill users are still worse off than 2nd level spellcasters.

What does modern design mean to me?
Simple base game model that takes 10 minutes to explain, and less than 3 minutes to resolve character's round, with GM's accounting taking at most a sheet of paper to run an encounter, and a character page fitting one, yes, one page (applies to spellcasters, too).

Mechanical character growth is important. No empty levels, no +1 to seldom used stats, no tracking of every little bit of equipment (say FU to +1 longswords, wands of numerous charges and 10% xp gains... yes, I know the last one does not apply to PF2, but it is sample of certain type of approach).

There are no must have roles, classes or utilities. I cringe at the memory of casting cures for minutes, seeing yet another sleep or invisibility. I love how recoveries in 13th Age made characters self-sufficient (having a healer helps, but it is not necessary - at the same time you don't get to heal forever).

The system supports diverse character concepts, not just reskinning.

There is an SRD. And/Or at least the game owners embrace the idea of their fans contributing or taking the game further.

There are sane limitations and guidelines on what and how people do things. There are also ways to bypass them. It's bloody difficult to keep short this one, so I will go with few examples. Concise skill list with names that don't require definitions, subsystems, and do not overlap. Hercules is not 18/00 strength person. If the game allows for teleports and resurrects, it also regulates their use so that SH&T can be trivially circumvented, and assassins still can kill kings.

At the same time, don't track encumbrance for coins, split game into modes that add burden to track, but do not introduce new things.

--

Ahem. Apologies for the rant. Also, I know it's an ideal, but IMHO, worth aspiring to.

 

[CapnZapp]

There is just no need for all the fiddly stacking +1 - 3 etc mechanics, when the feel they are trying to give during combat can be done with a simpler more straightforward system.

A brilliantly beautiful example of this is Gloomhaven, the board game.

It accomplishes much of the feel of combat, and how a Rogue differs from a Barbarian, say. And it does so with fiendishly simple and elegant mechanics that play fast, yet controlled.