Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Revisits Psionics

The latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC revisits some psionic rules! “Shine with the power of the mind in this installment of Unearthed Arcana! Today we revisit several psi-themed options that we released in the past few months. Studying your feedback on those options, we’ve crafted this new collection of subclasses, spells, and feats, found in the PDF below.“

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[Maxperson]

I'm a fan of how psionics was in 3.5E/Dreasmscarred Press. It worked. I don't mind psionics as magic, but the problem is that trying to hitch it on a sorcerer or wizard is that both of those come equipped with a lot of non-psionic themes, flavor, and other baggage. I think that either a Spell Point Psion or a Warlock-like pact magic Psion would work well for 5e. Give them spells and other talents, wild or trained, that they could do, and you're on the easy track to success.

A buddy of mine ran 3e Psionics as completely different. Psionics could not counter or be countered by magic, worked in anti-magic zones, etc. I warned him about the balance issues but he said he didn't care. My Psion was pleased.

I ran it as slightly different from magic. MR/SR worked against the other type, but at a -5. Anti-magic still shut it down. It could be countered/dispelled, but also with a penalty, and vise versa.

A third buddy of mine ran it as just another kind of magic.

Personally, I'd also be okay with it being another form of magic, so long as it was a magic of the mind and WotC created it in a similar vein to 2e and 3e(I'm not familiar with 4e).

Edit: corrected a typo.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That shouldn't be a problem; I've been told the only races that should EVER exist in Athas are the ones from the original box set, so that should be easy enough to fit in one book.

Yeah, maybe, but then we have to count on them to actually DO that, and actually put them all in there. And I'm just not sure I trust WotC to do that. I'm not sure I trust them to do Half-Giant at all, for example (Goliath is not a good match). Oh well, homebrew based on extant races is easy via Beyond these days.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's pretty much a case of "bing bang bosh" as we say, you could have a work Psion or Psionicist or whatever you want to call it, largely using existing spells, powered by a spell point system that works out to be less punch than a full caster, but more spell options, and a lot of neat little tricks, and yeah no VM components, optionally no S (just avoid or create alternate versions of any spells with consumable components or something). Make it INT-based because no-one else is except Wizard. "Job's a good 'un" as we also say - which translates to "That job is done".

I'd say this is actually a bigger problem than you seem to think it is.

I had a discussion recently about how to shut down a wizard. Take away their material components (or focus) gag and bind them, and they are essentially helpless they can't cast. This is true of pretty much every caster, with a few exceptions here or there for specific abilities (wildshape, channel dvinity, ect)

With no VMS for your Psion... they don't care about any of that. Ignoring anti-magic, ignoring silence spells, ignoring magical resistance.

If you made an Int based Psion with spells from the wizard spell list and spell points, but who was not limited by components and was specifically not using magic... then you have made a better wizard. You have taken the wizard and removed all their weaknesses and given them nothing to significantly balance that back down.

I don't want that. Psionics has to have similiar limits to magic, or it becomes just better magic.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yeah, maybe, but then we have to count on them to actually DO that, and actually put them all in there. And I'm just not sure I trust WotC to do that. I'm not sure I trust them to do Half-Giant at all, for example (Goliath is not a good match). Oh well, homebrew based on extant races is easy via Beyond these days.

I find that a strange use of the word "trust". I could understand, for example, "I'm not sure I expect them to do a Half-Giant at all..." But why "trust"? Did they promise they would do a half-giant?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'd say this is actually a bigger problem than you seem to think it is.

I had a discussion recently about how to shut down a wizard. Take away their material components (or focus) gag and bind them, and they are essentially helpless they can't cast. This is true of pretty much every caster, with a few exceptions here or there for specific abilities (wildshape, channel dvinity, ect)

With no VMS for your Psion... they don't care about any of that. Ignoring anti-magic, ignoring silence spells, ignoring magical resistance.

If you made an Int based Psion with spells from the wizard spell list and spell points, but who was not limited by components and was specifically not using magic... then you have made a better wizard. You have taken the wizard and removed all their weaknesses and given them nothing to significantly balance that back down.

I don't want that. Psionics has to have similiar limits to magic, or it becomes just better magic.

It really isn't a big problem. Make it so that if they don't have their focus on their person, they need V&S components again.

Boom problem solved next.

Also as you allude to, literally your entire complaint applies worse to Wildshape. Druids can't be restrained in any conventional way. You need magic anti-shapeshifting handcuffs or whatever.

Re: "A better Wizard". Obviously not. You make them less powerful than a full caster. You don't just go "Oh I'll give a Wizard spellpoints lolz!!!!". You give them a smaller spell list, make it harder to acquire spells (disciplines etc.), and make them never get a lot of the most powerful or flashy Wizard spells, maybe never get the equivalent of 8th/9th level spells (or only in a very limited way, like Warlocks). They should also get healing spells, which sounds like a benefit but totally isn't, because it means the character inevitably ends up dumping spell slots/levels into other PCs to help them out, rather than using those spells to blow people up or whatever.

Boom "problem" solved next.

Ignoring anti-magic and magic resistance? No, they don't. Neither me nor Remathilis suggested they should and even Maxperson agrees it's not necessary, and he has the most extreme views I've ever seen on this. This is a problem you have created by yourself.

Boom problem solved next.

I literally solved all your "problems" here in single-digit minutes.

I find that a strange use of the word "trust". I could understand, for example, "I'm not sure I expect them to do a Half-Giant at all..." But why "trust"? Did they promise they would do a half-giant?

?????

This is a really conventional usage of "trust" that I see used every day, dude. I don't think the issue is with me.

But for clarity, I mean, I don't trust them to do a Half-Giant race that is any way actually like the Half-Giant race from Athas. They've already messed it up once, in 4E.

And Athas without Half-Giants, Muls, and Thri-Kreen, ain't Athas. What next, Eberron minus Warforged and Changelings?

 

[Maxperson]

I'd say this is actually a bigger problem than you seem to think it is.

I had a discussion recently about how to shut down a wizard. Take away their material components (or focus) gag and bind them, and they are essentially helpless they can't cast. This is true of pretty much every caster, with a few exceptions here or there for specific abilities (wildshape, channel dvinity, ect)

With no VMS for your Psion... they don't care about any of that. Ignoring anti-magic, ignoring silence spells, ignoring magical resistance.

If you made an Int based Psion with spells from the wizard spell list and spell points, but who was not limited by components and was specifically not using magic... then you have made a better wizard. You have taken the wizard and removed all their weaknesses and given them nothing to significantly balance that back down.

I don't want that. Psionics has to have similiar limits to magic, or it becomes just better magic.

I posted earlier how that could be balanced. You could make it very slow without a Psicrystal. Let the Psicrystal focus the mental magic so that it works normally, but without it the Psion is taking a -4(or more) penalty to initiative. Maybe make it full round and able to be broken by damage via concentration checks. Let the crystal work similar to the psionic die in the recent UA, but maybe without refresh. If the die hits zero, you are stuck with the slow usage until you get a long rest.

There are other ways to balance a Psion.

 

[Maxperson]

It really isn't a big problem. Make it so that if they don't have their focus on their person, they need V&S components again.

Boom problem solved next.

This would not work for me. They should not have to use components. However, what I would be okay with, is requiring the Psion to be rested in order to have points. It seems to me that exhaustion could/should prevent the mind from focusing enough to power psionics. If you harass the psion through a day, disrupting concentration and then preventing a long rest, have their points drop to 0 until they succeed in getting a long rest. If the guards wake and harass them every few hours, they will get enough rest to live, but not achieve a long rest. It would be similar to removal of components.

I'm all for balancing Psions, but not at the expense of what makes them Psions.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

This would not work for me. They should not have to use components. However, what I would be okay with, is requiring the Psion to be rested in order to have points. It seems to me that exhaustion could/should prevent the mind from focusing enough to power psionics. If you harass the psion through a day, disrupting concentration and then preventing a long rest, have their points drop to 0 until they succeed in getting a long rest. If the guards wake and harass them every few hours, they will get enough rest to live, but not achieve a long rest. It would be similar to removal of components.

I'm all for balancing Psions, but not at the expense of what makes them Psions.

So their primary weakness would be... an easily avoided mechanic unless you are a certain subclass in a class that a psion has no reason to multiclass into at all?

 

[Dausuul]

Lets avoid that this time and I'll say, I'd love know what exactly "most tables and most players don't use Feats" actually means.

What it means is that, based on available data, most PCs do not have feats. That is what WotC has said, and it is all that WotC has said.

Things WotC has not said, that people (including some folks on this site who should know better) have misinterpreted the above statement to mean:

• "Most tables do not allow feats." (Fallacy: Just because PCs do not have feats does not mean the table has made a rule to forbid them.)
• "Most players are not interested in feats." (Fallacy: The overwhelming majority of PCs are low-level, where the cost of taking a feat is extremely high--you have to either play a variant human, or sacrifice +2 to your prime stat, and the latter option isn't even available until level 4. If you look at PCs of level 12+, who do not face these tradeoffs, well over 50% have feats.)

I'm perfectly willing to believe what WotC tells us. But it's vitally important to listen to what WotC actually says and not blindly accept summaries and interpretations from third parties.

 

[Guest 6801328]

?????

This is a really conventional usage of "trust" that I see used every day, dude.

Maybe. I found the phrasing...'jarring' might be too strong, but it struck me as odd.

I don't think the issue is with me.

Is there an issue?