D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Coroc]

Fantasy Psionic power can do the same as a lot of actual spells.
wotc don’t want to rewrite all those spells just to name them : Psionic power and remove component.

well, how do people play psionics?
e.g.
if a wizard charms someone then the target notices.

I think some approaches for psionic charm make this far more subtile.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

well, how do people play psionics?

They wave their hand and say "these aren't the droids you are looking for."

 

[Larnievc]

I don't think a "psion" class is needed for Dark Sun. Dark Sun was based on Gamma World, with the psionic powers (nice and random and weird in 2nd edition) filling in for mutations. The psion class itself was completely broken in 2nd edition, so was not usually allowed, even in Dark Sun.

I suspect when people say "you need a psion for Dark Sun" they are really thinking of 3rd edition Dark Sun, or testosterone fuelled adolescent power trips where the PCs became dragon kings.

Dunno about that. Dark sun was originally supposed to be an ice world.

In all the years I played Dark Sun we never had any problem with Psionicists (and we played The Dargon’s Crown).

We used The Will and the Way and never had any problems.

What problems did you run into playing 2nd ed Dark Sun?

 

[Krachek]

well, how do people play psionics?
e.g.
if a wizard charms someone then the target notices.

I think some approaches for psionic charm make this far more subtile.

The target notice the wizard charm in DnD, but elsewhere in Fantasy wizard charm are often more subtile too! We have been brainwash, nothing less, by our years of playing DnD, and for most classes we submit to the tradition. Psion fans seem to rebel and are asking for more freedom in their use of psionic power. Of course to allow this freedom in a rule set is not easy to balance and apply.

 

[Hussar]

Psychic powers and magic, as separate systems, can be found together in the Marvel and DC universes. I suspect one could find the same thing in pulps such as Doc Savage.

If we define psychic powers as uncanny abilities that depend upon the internal power of the individual and not on external sources such as gods, spirits, incantations, rituals, or objects then they can be found in the European tradition:

Galadriel's ability to read minds in The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien's inspiration here was Ayesha in H Rider Haggard's She.
Mesmerism or animal magnetism
The evil eye
Second sight

It could also be argued that by the definition above the powers of gods and other non-human entities such as fairies are psychic.

Are you seriously arguing that psionics has a place in Middle Earth? And that's based on what part of the text?

Middle Earth has magic. That's pretty solidly displayed. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone try to claim psionics in Middle Earth.

That's one serious stretch. I mean, sure, if we define psionics as having four wheels, an engine and a transmission, then it's a car. Cool. Great. Playing silly buggers with definitions is a pedantic rabbit hole I'm not particularly interested in.

Third time, is it actually contentious to say that magic and psionics extremely rarely (as in almost never) appear in the same work?

 

[Krachek]

I'm fine with slots but it is an issue for some.

I thing the Psionic Sorcerer is a good mold. 3 resources.

1. Psionic Talent Die. For slightly stronger than normal at will psionic actions.
2. Psi Points. For slightly stronger psionic actions.
3. A third Thing. For the strongest things. Either slots or things that work like activated warlock invocations.

Personally, I'd have psionic and magic affect each other. To me, more important part is displaying the powers of mental training and not just creating a new source of supernatural phenomena. I am fine with the comicbook rules of magicians, mystics, mutants, psi-borgs, and aliens all being able to have psychic combat.

Our chat make me think that not only Psion can claim a more organic and versatil use of their power.
you state the difference between the Wizard telekinesis and the Pison one. But the Wizard can make the same complaint about alternate use of its spell. We assume that wizard spells are lock in small square box, but in some fantasy the usage of magical telekinesis is also a matter of skill and mastery.
Your requirements for the Psion open up the debate about why cant all martial do Manoeuvers.
Why wizard don’t have metamagic, why eldritch Knight can’t smite with their spell slots...

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Are you seriously arguing that psionics has a place in Middle Earth? And that's based on what part of the text?

Middle Earth has magic. That's pretty solidly displayed. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone try to claim psionics in Middle Earth.

That's one serious stretch. I mean, sure, if we define psionics as having four wheels, an engine and a transmission, then it's a car. Cool. Great. Playing silly buggers with definitions is a pedantic rabbit hole I'm not particularly interested in.

Third time, is it actually contentious to say that magic and psionics extremely rarely (as in almost never) appear in the same work?

Actually, if you read the books, rather than watch the movies, magic in Middle Earth is not "displayed". It is subtle, you usually cannot see it happening at all, and does not require the reciting of certain words and gestures.

It's very different to D&D (Harry Potter, Doctor Strange) magic.

Magic in Middle Earth is certainly called magic, but it functions in a way that a lot of people are saying psionics should function.

 

[dave2008]

If it's not a full caster, it's not a Psion. Psions are pure casters.

In your opinion. In reality a Psion is not a thing, so we get to determine what it is.

No. I just misunderstood what you were saying. Now I do and disagree. You can't make a non-pure Psion, because if you tried, it would be some other class. It would be like making a pure casting, heavy armor wearing divine class and trying to call it a Ranger.

OK, I understand your opinion now, but it is just your opinion obviously. It is not a fact. I disagree of course, I don't see a need to construct such a restrictive box. However, I think we are on the same page now at least, so that is good. Thanks for the response.

 

[Coroc]

Actually, if you read the books, rather than watch the movies, magic in Middle Earth is not "displayed". It is subtle, you usually cannot see it happening at all, and does not require the reciting of certain words and gestures.

It's very different to D&D (Harry Potter, Doctor Strange) magic.

Magic in Middle Earth is certainly called magic, but it functions in a way that a lot of people are saying psionics should function.

yes in a way you are correct. Though still the artefact curse of the ring however it may seem like psi, is justified because of magic.
The ring in fact is a combination of a ring of invisibility , or maybe planeshift shadowrealm with unlimited charges, and major undead control.

 

[dave2008]

So you think a non-spell using, armor wearing, fighting wizard is okay?

No, but an armor wearing, fighting, spell casting wizard is. Heck, look at Gandalf. He is called a wizard in the books and he hardly ever casts spells. I could see a wizard being a half-caster class actually.