Torchbearer 2nd ed Kickstarter

[pemerton]

There was a bit of discussion of this in a recent generic crowdfuding thread, but I though maybe it deserves its own thread - there is a new edition of Torchbearer coming out via Kickstarter: Torchbearer 2nd Edition.

Torchbearer is designed by the Burning Wheel team (Luke Crane, Thor Olavsrud, et al). I'm a huge Burning Wheel fan. BW is a fantasy RPG which emphasises emotionally intense play focused on character's trying and often failing to realise their goals and ideals; and which uses pretty crunchy subsystems to deliver on this. I've never played Torchbearer, so my description of it is based on reading play reports, Luke Crane's posts about the design process etc: it's a cross between pure BW and Moldvay-esque dungeoneering. So less melodrama but more logistically- and suspense-driven challenge.

There are plenty of ENworlders who know this system much better than me and can correct and/or elaborate on my description of it. I just thought it worthwhile to start a thread about it.

 

[chaochou]

There was a bit of discussion of this in a recent generic crowdfuding thread, but I though maybe it deserves its own thread - there is a new edition of Torchbearer coming out via Kickstarter: Torchbearer 2nd Edition.

It’s a cross between pure BW and Moldvay-esque dungeoneering. So less melodrama but more logistically- and suspense-driven challenge.

I’m looking forward to it as a big fan of Burning Wheel. My initial impression is that it’s very similar to BW, but with a very clear focus on dungeons, monsters, loot and light. Whereas BW is a broad and flexible system, and so relies on the group to establish the focus of play.

Old hands with Torchbearer can hopefully chime in...

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yeah, I’m hoping some folks who are familiar will jump in to share their thoughts. I’m familiar with the first edition in name only, really. I’d consider getting this through the KS but I’d love to hear more.

 

[Aldarc]

Same. I know that Torchbearer was a HUGE influence on the Darkest Dungeon video game.

 

[chaochou]

Same. I know that Torchbearer was a HUGE influence on the Darkest Dungeon video game.

Both I and my group are also big fans of Darkest Dungeon, so if Torchbearer hits the same spot it will go down really well.

 

[Manbearcat]

Overall, as I review it, it feels more like an "Expansion (and some simultaneous contraction) and Clarification" than a "Revised." I mean I guess, taken as a whole, that does qualify as a "Revised!"

But I'm not privy to everything yet.

I'm curious about tons of things, but just a couple things that I'm curious about to focus conversation:

Creed

No analogue in Mouse Guard or Torchbearer. This is, presumably, the aggregate of your Beliefs. Your entire ethos. "Embody your Creed through a crisis and be rewarded."

You earn Fate and Persona by Acting on or Playing Against a Belief.

How does Creed interface with this?

Is it something wholly different from Beliefs then (rather than the aggregate of them)?

Seems so. Maybe at end of session there is a group collective of each player's Creed and, if the table feels that the PC embodied their creed for that session, they get a free mark of the Total Spent (Fate and Persona) column (which is basically your XP track for level advancement).

Seems likely.

Base Camp

This could be absolutely super cool and I've got faith in Thor and Luke to pull this off. My thoughts roughly:

1) My guess is that the play loop is going to be the same as Camp (not going to break all of that down here, but its basically Recovery + Downtime stuff).

2) However, its going to (a) involve a hefty decision-point regarding resource expenditure to attain and maintain and (b) a Twist will put you in a Conflict (there are interesting new Conflicts) that could cause calamity for your Base Camp.

Feels a bit Blades in the Dark inspired.

To be honest, my guess is that a fair amount of the subtle changes that we're going to see will be a little bit Blades in the Dark inspired.

I'll have more thoughts later, but if folks want to talk about those two things, I think that would be a nice place to start.

 

[Archade]

I played the original Torchbearer! Interesting inventory system to get away from bookkeeping and minutae (you can have up to 10 things) and the magic system was built on combining building blocks ... will be interesting to see what they come out with for 2nd ed!

 

[Manbearcat]

Folks who haven't played Torchbearer or Mouse Guard should ask some questions about what to expect from Torchbearer 2.

I'd gladly answer those. I think that might be more helpful than me just writing things that interest me personally (because (a) that may not interest others and (b) they may not possess the context to understand why I find it interesting).

So ask questions!

What specifically are folks curious about? The more specific the question, the better (feel free to relate to to any version of D&D or Dungeon World or some other game that you're familiar with).

 

[chaochou]

What specifically are folks curious about? The more specific the question, the better (feel free to relate to to any version of D&D or Dungeon World or some other game that you're familiar with).

So, does the game rely on a GM pre-building a dungeon which the PCs explore? If so, how does the game make the dungeon relevant for the characters?
If not, how do you end up dungeon crawling without a dungeon?

 

[hawkeyefan]

What specifically are folks curious about? The more specific the question, the better (feel free to relate to to any version of D&D or Dungeon World or some other game that you're familiar with).

Does Torchbearer have a core mechanic that’s easily described?

Are there traditional elements such as Hit Points and Armor Class? Any other D&D based rules or mechanics?

My group is very D&D focused so I’m curious how much of a learning curve there would be.