Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Catulle]

The most fun I had (and thus my biases are clearly displayed) as a psychometabolic style psionic (3.5 Sanghirn) involved amplified recovery rates and messing with non lethal damage conversion combined with taking on conditions and damage from other friendlies to "heal" them. I could see that having some grounds for development, possibly with a sideline in "backlashing" the same onto enemies to maintain theme and grant some offensive capacity. It's certainly within scope of more mythical treatments of yogis, fakir, faith healers, psychic surgery and the like while maintaining aesthetic distance from chanting-gestures-and-bat-poo magic magic.

ETA - The aesthetic distinction from magic in terms of VSM components could be neatly covered by building on older editions' manifestations and (warpcraft-esque) reality bleed style side effects that could be conceptually tied to said disciplines by way of underlining/emphasising the ficton layer.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that the class should be able to come up with infinite subclasses based around the concept of specialties in order to warrant them being subclases?

I don't see a difference with the specialties of the Psion. I also don't think you really need more than a handful of subclasses around the basic premise of "schools" as a subclass. If you run out of schools at 8, and Psion subclasses at 6, that's sufficient for that concept. You can then make more wizard sublases, like say a Pyromancer or Psion subclasses like say a Metamind.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you need infinite subclasses, or even a lot of them. I'm only saying that if the basis you are using for designing subclasses is obviously finite in some way (as it would be if, for example, the Fighter subclasses were "Great Weapon Wielder", "Archer", "Shield Master", and "Dual Wielder") that might a good sign that you're picking an overly narrow and uninteresting way of designing your subclasses.

In my opinion, the implementation of the original Wizard subclasses is kind of lame. Who picks a Wizard subclass because of the school, as opposed to picking whichever one has the one (or maybe two) most useful abilities? How many of us have played a Divination wizard as, well, a diviner? At least in my experience, the Divination wizard is just a regular old wizard...or even an Evoker, if you want to look at spell choice and use...with a really powerful trick up their sleeve.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Look at the 3e Prestige classes for some ideas. They got pretty creative.

List a few? I'm curious, too.

 

[Maxperson]

List a few? I'm curious, too.

Elocater: A Psion based on movement and physical combat. Their ability with movement enabled them to view battles and predict movement, giving some bonuses. Dimension step, which would be a misty step like ability. The ability to make an extra small movement, which could be done as a bonus action. At higher levels they had a dimensional spring attack, which could be done in 5e by allowing the "misty step" like ability to be broken up like movement can be and the attacks spread out that way. And accelerated action, which allowed extra attacks X times per day, broken up once per round.

Metamind: It was a more pure Psion. It allowed the Psion to "cast spells" for free a few times a day. As you went up in level, the level of the power went up. If the Psion in 5e has powers as spells, that would be easy. If we are giving powers as class abilities, it would have to be modified somehow. It allowed the creation of a special kind of Psicrystal that could store more power. This prestige class was about achieving more psionic power.

Psion Uncarnate: This prestige class was about becoming pure thought, eventually losing the body completely, only being able to manifest a physical body for 1 minute a day at the highest level. It's powers were about slowly gaining the ability go become incorporeal and alter the body with thought, such as assuming any likeness from small to large at higher levels.

Pyrokineticist: Psion specializing in fire! Fire!

Thrallherd: Taking the ability to charm and dominate to greater levels. They also had the ability to send out a psychic call for thralls, which was akin to the leadership feat and gained you followers, but they didn't show up because of charisma and leadership, but because something in their psyche resonated with the call.

Anarchic Initiate: Basically a Psionic "wildmage" type.

There were also a number that are better off being subclasses of other classes.

 

[Maxperson]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you need infinite subclasses, or even a lot of them. I'm only saying that if the basis you are using for designing subclasses is obviously finite in some way (as it would be if, for example, the Fighter subclasses were "Great Weapon Wielder", "Archer", "Shield Master", and "Dual Wielder") that might a good sign that you're picking an overly narrow and uninteresting way of designing your subclasses.

I think this is a case-by-case thing. Some will be too narrow, others will not.

In my opinion, the implementation of the original Wizard subclasses is kind of lame. Who picks a Wizard subclass because of the school, as opposed to picking whichever one has the one (or maybe two) most useful abilities?

I do. Or have anyway. It depends on my character concept. I've also had my players do it sometimes and not other times, depending on their concepts.

How many of us have played a Divination wizard as, well, a diviner?

I have.

At least in my experience, the Divination wizard is just a regular old wizard...or even an Evoker, if you want to look at spell choice and use...with a really powerful trick up their sleeve.

That was more true in prior editions. I really like what 5e did with school specialization. I DM much more than I play, but when I play next I'm either going to be an Abjuration Wizard or a Divination Wizard.

 

[Guest 6801328]

That was more true in prior editions. I really like what 5e did with school specialization. I DM much more than I play, but when I play next I'm either going to be an Abjuration Wizard or a Divination Wizard.

Huh. And you emphasize divination spells over other schools? More power to you.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Elocater: A Psion based on movement and physical combat. Their ability with movement enabled them to view battles and predict movement, giving some bonuses. Dimension step, which would be a misty step like ability. The ability to make an extra small movement, which could be done as a bonus action. At higher levels they had a dimensional spring attack, which could be done in 5e by allowing the "misty step" like ability to be broken up like movement can be and the attacks spread out that way. And accelerated action, which allowed extra attacks X times per day, broken up once per round.

Yeah, I don't like teleportation as a psionic ability. As part of a general theme of disliking psionics as "everything magic can do...but somehow not the same". Anyway, Wizard/Sorcerer spell lists are already full of various teleportation abilities.

Metamind: It was a more pure Psion. It allowed the Psion to "cast spells" for free a few times a day. As you went up in level, the level of the power went up. If the Psion in 5e has powers as spells, that would be easy. If we are giving powers as class abilities, it would have to be modified somehow. It allowed the creation of a special kind of Psicrystal that could store more power. This prestige class was about achieving more psionic power.

This feels like a subclass based on mechanics rather than narrative concept. Like a "Strength Fighter" subclass.

Psion Uncarnate: This prestige class was about becoming pure thought, eventually losing the body completely, only being able to manifest a physical body for 1 minute a day at the highest level. It's powers were about slowly gaining the ability go become incorporeal and alter the body with thought, such as assuming any likeness from small to large at higher levels.

The turning into incorporeal pure thought is one of the more interesting ones. It's spoiled by the shapechanging ability, though. (If I'm understanding it.)

Pyrokineticist: Psion specializing in fire! Fire!

You mean, like an Evoker?

Thrallherd: Taking the ability to charm and dominate to greater levels. They also had the ability to send out a psychic call for thralls, which was akin to the leadership feat and gained you followers, but they didn't show up because of charisma and leadership, but because something in their psyche resonated with the call.

You mean, like an Enchanter...but better?

Anarchic Initiate: Basically a Psionic "wildmage" type.

You mean....never mind, you already completed that one for me.

With the exception of going incorporeal, I don't really see any concepts there that make me think there's some really cool unexplored design space. It feels to me like mechanics-driven design, not narrative-driven design.

 

[Mecheon]

Yeah, I don't like teleportation as a psionic ability.

Teleportation is a heavy psychic thing in popular culture. I'd argue long-range teleportation is the wizard thing, whereas short-range teleportation is more psychic

With the exception of going incorporeal, I don't really see any concepts there that make me think there's some really cool unexplored design space. It feels to me like mechanics-driven design, not narrative-driven design.

Narrative design's where I duck in, but, 3.5E kind of went -mad- with its prestige classes.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, I don't like teleportation as a psionic ability. As part of a general theme of disliking psionics as "everything magic can do...but somehow not the same". Anyway, Wizard/Sorcerer spell lists are already full of various teleportation abilities.

I don't see that as a reason for Psions not to have it. Classes are full of PCs that can swing weapons, too. I don't think we should keep the next class from being able to swing a weapon. If an ability makes sense for a class to have, it should have it, regardless of what other classes already have it.

This feels like a subclass based on mechanics rather than narrative concept. Like a "Strength Fighter" subclass.

It's more like making a Champion Fighter or a Berserker Barbarian or Domain of Life Cleric or Circle of the Moon Druid or...

Having a subclass do what the base class can do, but more, is common.

The turning into incorporeal pure thought is one of the more interesting ones. It's spoiled by the shapechanging ability, though. (If I'm understanding it.)

It's more like the Organians in the original Star Trek series. Once you can become thought, recorporating into something different is pretty easy. It's not so much shapechanging, as just using thought to assume a different looking physical form.

You mean, like an Evoker?

No, not like an Evoker. Evokers can use any energy type and many more different types of damaging spells.

You mean, like an Enchanter...but better?

No, not like an Enchanter. Enchanters have many more enchantment abilities. The thrall ability doesn't give the PC control of the followers. It just flavors the followers in a different light than leadership. Rather than coming because of charisma and leadership, they come because of the mental call and willingness to be a follower of the Thrallherd.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Elocater: A Psion based on movement and physical combat. Their ability with movement enabled them to view battles and predict movement, giving some bonuses. Dimension step, which would be a misty step like ability. The ability to make an extra small movement, which could be done as a bonus action. At higher levels they had a dimensional spring attack, which could be done in 5e by allowing the "misty step" like ability to be broken up like movement can be and the attacks spread out that way. And accelerated action, which allowed extra attacks X times per day, broken up once per round.

Metamind: It was a more pure Psion. It allowed the Psion to "cast spells" for free a few times a day. As you went up in level, the level of the power went up. If the Psion in 5e has powers as spells, that would be easy. If we are giving powers as class abilities, it would have to be modified somehow. It allowed the creation of a special kind of Psicrystal that could store more power. This prestige class was about achieving more psionic power.

Psion Uncarnate: This prestige class was about becoming pure thought, eventually losing the body completely, only being able to manifest a physical body for 1 minute a day at the highest level. It's powers were about slowly gaining the ability go become incorporeal and alter the body with thought, such as assuming any likeness from small to large at higher levels.

Pyrokineticist: Psion specializing in fire! Fire!

Thrallherd: Taking the ability to charm and dominate to greater levels. They also had the ability to send out a psychic call for thralls, which was akin to the leadership feat and gained you followers, but they didn't show up because of charisma and leadership, but because something in their psyche resonated with the call.

Anarchic Initiate: Basically a Psionic "wildmage" type.

There were also a number that are better off being subclasses of other classes.

Sounds pretty much like the Mystic's subclasses...